Women and Youth.

[john reade]

What turned you off checkers Josh?

[jaguar72]

Two different people use this name, so it's not Josh Armstrong posting the problems and updating the roster of champions. Even as a volunteer I don't want to do it anymore, I have lost all interest in checkers, but I made a commitment so I continue to update things once a month. Also, I don't think I'm considered a youth, I'm 22.

Oh.

Josh/Jolt (?), please accept my apologies for the confusion; certainly no offense meant. Alas, I'm still a little confused about the situation... .

Also, even given the name of the thread, I did not mean to imply you were a "youth" (at least in the sense of being a junior player or something similar); plus, you gotta understand that from my perspective almost all people under, oh, forty or so seem pretty youthful, if you catch my drift.

And I certainly hope you regain your zest for the game; your loss of "all interest in checkers" is clearly a loss for the game, for the ACF and, I think (just my opinion, of course), for you personally.

Once again, Josh, I apologize if I have caused any offense.

V/R,

Gary Jenkins/jaguar72

[Irma Sierra]

The point number 1 is a good point but.....

People who play checkers is because the "love for the game", not for money, not because there are many playing it, or because they are men, women or youth, not because the game is played in big cities, not because we are masters.....we play checkers because is the most beautifull game ever....

[Pedro Saavedra]

Love for the game is very idealistic, but if we hold onto that notion we get the popularity that is checkers today. Take chess for example, it has people that love the game, people that play professionally, and every person in between. Checkers lacks this. So if someone who is 70 thinks this is a beautiful game, he will have a hard time convincing his grandchildren.

Josh, when I want to make money I go to the office and provide my employer with services which he remunerates. For that I studied years and learned to provide a service for which there is a market. I play checkers for the love of it, and people who would play it mostly for money at the lower levels are not the sort of persons I would derive pleasure from playing. That does not mean I would not pay to read the works and analysis or watch the games of the great masters (including Alex), but they are providing me a service.

I am a past president of the Virginia Chess Federation, one of three who lived in Charlottesville. Thirty-six years ago, two of the three -- Rick Callaghan and myself (Rick was a former state chess champion) made the move to checkers precisely because there were too many chess players who had the kind of sentiments you have expressed. I had enjoyed tournaments in small towns, interacting with people of all ages, and hovering over position because I loved chess. As professional organizers and young players who only cared about money permeated the game, they drove us out.

In 1974, the average age of the checker players I met was much older than those I see now in the Internet. At 29 I was one of the youngest. Perhaps the older players will not attract the 18-year-olds, but the 30-year-olds disillusioned with chess and looking for a new love, like I was in 1974.

[tommyc]

Pedro,the harsh reality of life is there are many fallers in what ever field you choose,checkers is no different from any other discipline ,so be it.I feel in Josh s case he is disillusent and isolated ,and it is a lonely place to be.Been there bought the tea-shirt.

[B Salot]

Pedro, Will you attend the Va Ty in Bedford in Sep? Bill Salot

[jaguar72]

People who play checkers is because the "love for the game", not for money, not because there are many playing it, or because they are men, women or youth, not because the game is played in big cities, not because we are masters.....we play checkers because is the most beautifull game ever....

Well said, Sra. Sierra. Exactly so.

V/R,

Gary Jenkins/jaguar72

[Pedro Saavedra]

Pedro, Will you attend the Va Ty in Bedford in Sep? Bill Salot

My back does not permit me to enjoy crossboard checkers the way I once did. Plus I do not like to leave my wife to attend tournaments. I also now live in Maryland, and Bedford is too far. So I enjoy turn-based on-line checkers as my favorite mode.

Part of the point I have been trying to make is that there are different modes of play, and I wish the ACF recognized more turn-based, e-mail, on-line live, speed and many other modes. What unites us are the rules of play which means that we can each appreciate and profit from each other's play.

Some of the discussions in this forum were geared to promoting on-line checkers so the young players would later attend crossboard tournaments. Well, this assumes that real checkers is crossboard, and I do not hold to that premise. Indeed, in both chess and checkers, some of the greatest opening innovations have happened in correspondence play.

Let us promote on-line checkers in various modes so that there can be more competition between players who would otherwise never play each other, so that more beautiful lines may come to light, and in the future, so that we can have competitions between states and countries without anybody having to travel if their health or budget does not permit it.

That is a long answer to the simple question of whether I would attend the Va Ty. A simple no might have been construed as lack of interest in meeting fellow players or in a state I cherish enormously as the birthplace of the Virginia belle I married. But the sad reality is that I am not a crossboard player anymore. But I am still a checker player.

Pedro

[jpost]

Josh, I think you are looking at the outlook of checkers a little pessimistically. The Internet generation of checker players has revived the game--many have gone to other things, you apparently included now, but they still know the game and I am hopeful that they will some day return to it. I don't know you personally, but from what I've heard about your talent, you are doing yourself a major disservice by not playing anymore. As for checkers dying, it won't if I have anything to do with it.

Lots of youth play this game, it's just a matter of getting them to come to tournaments.

[ae_ted]

Well here we are. ..Tommey, I have no ax to grind. I do however observe and point out facts.
1 National, State and local "real" tournaments have remained constant or declined somewhat over the last 20 years that I have observed.
2 ACF is struggling to maintain or even hope to increase membership
3 This thread has pointed out well, how many people both old and young use the internet to play and interact in this day and age.
4 The future is looking us in the face and yelling in our ears.
I am not a teckno gook, but if there is to be a future to checkers and if ACF is going to have anything to do with that future, Then fokes, IT has got to be Internet based checkers along with "real" tourns. This CAN happen. Cheating is always going to be a problem but if they can do Internet poker online where Money is involved and get around the cheating, then somehow ,someway, i'm sure checkers can be done in a similar way. The best way ACF can insure the future is to put its moneys and trust funds into making Internet checker tourns a reality( boy that will stir the pot among the money changers haha).
Just again my humble opinion.

[tommyc]

Aye couldnt agree with yu more Ted if i said it meself.But Instutions dont change much its usually the same ol same ol,and besides, sure nobody want to be told what to do.Maybe its an instutional disease and irrevelant to who holds the whip hand.But its obv to me (and yu) the time line is short and diversification is needed to harness these young-uns jumping outa their skins in the wilderness.I wouldnt bet on it happening anytime soon but,all i can say remember i told you so.

[kiwinurse]

Travelling for checkers is very expensive,particularly if you live down under,and its only the love of the game that has driven me overseas to play. If i lived in America I may not have travelled so extensively,because there are so many state matches there that would satisfy me to look no further.
But now world qualifiers every year are not economically viable to most people,and i feel this has to change.Even if they were held every two-three years that would be a better option,with more people attending,as they would have time to save for them.
Checkers has to change radically to keep the interest up, not only in youth,but women and men.Even if there were internet matches held every year,and world qualifiers held every second or third year,or even every 5 years,thats a better deal,and would motivate people to work hard to attend. Less is best.
I think the World Checker Federation should look very closely at this if they want the game to grow.

[Bernard Coll]

As long as women players, youths and players with less ability than Master and Senior players are constantly ridiculed and derided by these so called superiors, there is only one way for checkers. Down the slippery slope never to return.

[kiwinurse]

I agree Bernard

[BillyBoy]

Hello Ladies and Gentlemen, I will first off like to say checkers is fine actually huge. You have Alex Weaver playing in New York promoting and making tons of videos on youtube. You have thousands of players on yahoo, pogo, kurnik whatever other site. Not to mention random people hanging out and clubs that play checkers. What is dieing out is the ACF and one of the main reasons is organization. If you talk to any player they will say the same thing. If the ACF wants to survive these volunteers actually need to volunteer. The bulletins need to be sent to everyone on time the website needs to be updated and the ratings need to be done every 6 months or at least 1 year. And respect needs to be shown from the Acf to its members and shown to any player that might be interested. And finally the last thing is the fighting needs to cool down a bit. To maintain a professional appearance to not only members but non members. As far as internet checkers being a part of Acf tournaments its a horrible idea. I cant tell you how many people will prog these tournaments for money. To a non internet player that means use a checkers program to play for you. So guys if that is what you want dont be alarmed if all the sudden there is about 300 new masters all at once taking all your prize money. Billy