South African Draughts

[Danny_Alvarez]

Hi Danny, I do respect your opinion even if I believe you are being a bit harsh here.

Mr Devlin, I do hold you in high esteem, and i am sorry if my opinion seems a bit harsh, i am going by the past. The past isn't always an indication of the future, but it gives us an idea of what could happen and after a while it is not surprising to see injustice repeated. TIME (as always) WILL TELL.

Out of all the countries that I have visited (UK, USA, New Zealand, Netherlands, Finland, Italy, Greece, Australia, South Korea, and Angola) only two (NewZealand and South Korea) currently do not require South Africans to obtain a visa.
The task obtaining visas for many of the MSSA's teams can be quite frustrating and expensive.
Of course if Danny can come up with a better solution, I would be most interested to know of it. However, it will have to be a solution that is both compliant with South African legislation and the will of the MSSA's membership.

Mr Webster, it is nice of you to join the discussion. i only have 2 questions and i do sincerely hope you have the time to answer them plainly.
1) When will the supposed trials to find South Africa's representative be held????
2) will mr Kondlo be allowed to participate in those trials?????

The way i see this, it is not a problem of visas .... it is another kettle of fish altogether. you answering my inocuous questions will help us change our "perhaps harsh"views of how this whole thing is being handled.
cheers
Danny Alvarez
I am waiting with baited breath for those answers

[liam stephens]

Hi Danny,

A very interesting discussion.

This may have no bearing on the situation, but I seem to recall that in the 2010 3 - Move QT in Dublin, Amangul Durdeyeva played under the WCDF banner, and two more players entered under the auspices of the Turkmenistan Draughts Association or Federation.
Could that be said to set a precedent ?
All of which reminds me of the old proverb:
“What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.”

Far be it from me to make a (Torvill and Dean like) suggestion, but, could not the various Draughts and Checkers Associations put their heads together and create a new title of Emeritus challenger, for entry into the QTs.
If Charles Walker is now back on the scene, that might prove to be no empty gesture.

Regards - Liam.

[tommyc]

Liam ...

Do i detect a....."DO AS I SAY ,NOT DO AS I DO........SCENARIO?

[Hugh Devlin]

The reason Tommy did not have the same experience as I did in 1987 is simple - Tommy did not apply for a visa. He was a beneficiary of the Visa Waver Scheme that was introduced afterwards to a list of named countries which included Ireland and Britain. Those countries not on that list continue to apply for a Visa as I once did.

Regarding the two questions posed by Danny, you will note the following stated above:

“Without securing financial support the MSSA cannot name any dates or venue for such “trials”. In view of the dates of the QT 2011 it is a requirement that any such “trials” must be held before the end of August 2011. As an act of good faith the MSSA have decided that should the MSSA not secure a sponsorship by 10 August 2011, the MSSA will do the following....”.

The second answer is Yes. However, can I state clearly that this is not about Lubabulo Kondlo. It’s about a pathway to get South African players to a QT. I am on record (2001) as stating that I believe there are many players in South Africa who are equally as good as Lubabulo, and I have said this many times since. I also note Geoff Yaw (producer of the “King Me” film) wrote in a recent Email to me thus:

“There are many players in SA that are as skilled as Lubabalo. I have met them.”

All of these players deserve an equal chance and thus the need for “trials” that would bring them together and play against each-other for the opportunity to attend a QT. This is where SA sports regulations come into play – they state that this must happen. I also note there’s no-one telling England, Ireland, USA, Germany, Scotland, Israel, Wales, New Zealand, Italy, etc who they must send! I assume they're all allowed to select their own players.


With regards to the comments about the 2010 QT, the TNDC (Turkmenistan) nominated Bagiyatar and Bashim Durdyev to play in the “Overall event” (to find a challenger for the World title that Alex Moiseyev holds), while also nominating Amangul Durdyeva to play in the “women’s event”. Many individuals queried the appropriateness of Amangul playing in an event which was designed to select the next challenger to the World title which she holds. Yet there was nothing that specifically stated that she could not. To resolve this issue the WCDF agreed to invite Amangul to play in the “overall event” on the basis of her being the reigning World Women's Champion,(and not as a 3rd Turkmenistan player) just as FMJD and FIDE do, and thus resolve the contentious issue of her playing in the women’s event. This did set a precedent – that the Women’s World champion will be invited to enter the overall division of a QT in the future. Hugh

[john reade]

Two questions.

1. Could the WCDF nomination of the last QT winner be extended to all previous QT winners?

2. Is the American sponsorship available for Kondlo only? Or could it be made available to the winner of the South African trials whoever that may be?

John.

[liam stephens]

John Reade asked:

1. Could the WCDF nomination of the last QT winner be extended to all previous QT winners?

Different mechanism (to the "Wild Card") - same end result.

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" - Romeo and Juliet.

[Danny_Alvarez]

Regarding the two questions posed by Danny, you will note the following stated above:

“Without securing financial support the MSSA cannot name any dates or venue for such “trials”. In view of the dates of the QT 2011 it is a requirement that any such “trials” must be held before the end of August 2011. As an act of good faith the MSSA have decided that should the MSSA not secure a sponsorship by 10 August 2011, the MSSA will do the following....”.

The second answer is Yes. However, can I state clearly that this is not about Lubabulo Kondlo. It’s about a pathway to get South African players to a QT. I am on record (2001) as stating that I believe there are many players in South Africa who are equally as good as Lubabulo, and I have said this many times since.

All of these players deserve an equal chance and thus the need for “trials” that would bring them together and play against each-other for the opportunity to attend a QT. This is where SA sports regulations come into play – they state that this must happen. I also note there’s no-one telling England, Ireland, USA, Germany, Scotland, Israel, Wales, New Zealand, Italy, etc who they must send! I assume they're all allowed to select their own players.

Hugh..... firstly i fail to see why Mr Webster cannot answer the questions himself....

secondly the MSSA will fail to find a sponsor therefore they will deny Mr Kondlo or anyone else the chance to attend. this is a circular argument. What comes first the chicken or the egg? (being a creationist i am a chicken man myself )

thirdly , if this is REALLY about getting a South African player to the QT why oh why are you guys stopping Mr Kondlo when he has secured a sponsor???? NO LOGIC will answer this...

fourthly, England, USA, Ireland, Germany, Wales, New Zealand , Italy aren't BLOCKING the efforts of any of their players attending tournaments.... Mr Webster cannot claim the same.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke
Shame on you Mr Devlin for 2 things .... (one for doing nothing, and 2 for defending the side committing the injustice)

[tommyc]

Why would the No1 RATED player in the world have to go for a trial ??........logic...NIL.

What happened to the two S.A. players who never showed up last time .............after the trials?

[JR Smith]

Here is a photo of Geoff Yaw and Lubabalo Kondlo and an article written by Victor Niederhoffer on Daily Speculations. "Checkers vs Chess" his most recent article posted July 8th. Look on the left index and choose this.
http://www.dailyspeculations.com/wordpress/?p=6528"

Where does Kondlo stand currently on going to Italy?
So far we know what was outline in Hugh Devlin's letter posted above.

Without securing financial support the MSSA cannot name any dates or venue for such “trials”. In view of the dates of the QT 2011 it is a requirement that any such “trials” must be held before the end of August 2011.

As an act of good faith the MSSA have decided that should the MSSA not secure a sponsorship by 10 August 2011, the MSSA will do the following:

1. Issue a note to all members stating that the MSSA has not been able to secure any sponsorship, and
2. Ask for people (who can pay for themselves - or who have got enough sponsorship) to apply to go.

The MSSA will then nominate the players who have responded, on a first-come-first-served basis to enter on the following conditions:

1. That the players so applying have a valid passport
2. That the players make full disclosure of any sponsorship - according to SA's FICA legislation, that is, who is paying, how much, contact details
3. That the players WILL NOT be representing South Africa, but instead have to represent the club to which they are affiliated, ie., Joe Bloggs from King's Club, South Africa

This way, if the MSSA cannot secure sponsorship, the MSSA will still be compliant with SA law.

I understand Lubabalo is busy making sure their draughts club is organized, paperwork correct, completed to satisfy MSSA, their club has proper membership to MSSA, dues current with MSSA, he is a member of MSSA & dues current, and full disclosure of his financial support to MSSA. He has his passport/visa and travel arrangement in place. Kondlo will represent his Port Elizabeth's Draughts Club instead of SA. This way if MSSA doesn't come through in time to make their deadline of August 10th, he has an alternative bid or "colors" to go but not as a SA representative. This is no guaranteed deal since MSSA could possibly find something wrong with their compliance, or they can't get the paperwork shuffle done in time. Lubablo Kondlo also has Mfuza Dyira, Eastern Cape Draughts Association (ECDA) Public relations Officer involved and help him, but it all seems to come down to MSSA and Mr. Webster who has rules, laws, and the MSSA membership concensus to abide by.

[tommyc]

There will be NO true winner of any International competition UNTIL Kondlo is in the field............playing without him is like having the World Cup without Brazil.

The cream always comes to the top no matter what banner its under......forget the MSSA let the No1 player in the world represent his club in Italy and forget S.A.......they are not worthy.!!

[Alex_Moiseyev]

and forget S.A.......they are not worthy.!!

Tommy, we can't leave behind SA players, they are worthy and everyone deserved a chance.

[tommyc]

Ranked best player in the world.................he must be there under any banner.

[Eric Strange]

With all respect given to Kondlo I do not consider him the #1 ranked player in the world. The only reason he holds the #1 spot is because the ratings are in a transitional period and he has not played enough to establish his real rank in the new system.

[Colin Webster]

Mr Webster, it is nice of you to join the discussion. i only have 2 questions and i do sincerely hope you have the time to answer them plainly.
1) When will the supposed trials to find South Africa's representative be held????
2) will mr Kondlo be allowed to participate in those trials?????

[/quote]

Dear Danny

Sorry I was way with our KwaZul Natal Provincial Championships. Please note that I rarely review this forum. However responses to your questions are:

1. The trials will be held if the MSSA has found the necessary monies to send a team. If the MSSA has not found such monies, the MSSA shall advise all of our checkers players apropos the alternative arrangement.

2. Please note that all players who have finished in the top twenty percent of the MSSA's provincial championships are entitled to participate in such trials. And yes, Mr. Lubabalo Kondlo has qualified for such trials in that he won our Mpumalanga Provincial Championships in June.

[Alex_Moiseyev]

Colin, I wish everyone good luck and best should win ! It would be very nice if one or two SA players will be able to come and play in Italy. I think you should play trials anyway, in advance, regardless money funding. It is always important thing to rank players properly from time to time.

I don't know what system you are using in MSSA, but in this particular case in my eyes best trials system would be Olympic, knock-out system: winner goes to the next round. Robin Round also may work.