Dear All,
I've just started work on the 10-15s (20 minutes ago!), and appear to have discovered a new transposition. What do you think?
10-15 21-17; 6-10 17-14; 9-18 23-14; 10-17 22-13; 12-16 25-21; 16-19 29-25; 7-10 25-22; 1-6 22-17; 5-9 17-14; 9-18 27-23; 18-27 32-7; 2-11 26-23; 10-14 24-20 (instead of Case's 24-19); 3-7 31-27; 8-12 27-24; 4-8 23-19; 7-10 30-26 into 9-13 24-20; 6-9!
All the best, Richard
New Transposition
-
Richard Pask
- Posts: 290
- Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:15 pm
- What do you like about checkers?: Much!
-
Wavuti Uwepo
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:32 pm
- What do you like about checkers?: The practically unlimited play of the game.
- Location: Queensland, Australia
Re: New Transposition
I don't know how you do it, Richard!
I would like to start my own playbook but I don't know where to start. I've been doing some play on the Dundee and would like to do something with 12-16 like you have done with 9-13, 9-14 and 10-14. How do you decide what your trunk games are? Do you use a computer to find a perfect drawn game? Are there published games that are considered standard games?
Do you know of anything on the net I should read to get started?
I'm looking forward to your 10-15. I'm currently using your 9-13 for ideas in a game in progress.
I would like to start my own playbook but I don't know where to start. I've been doing some play on the Dundee and would like to do something with 12-16 like you have done with 9-13, 9-14 and 10-14. How do you decide what your trunk games are? Do you use a computer to find a perfect drawn game? Are there published games that are considered standard games?
Do you know of anything on the net I should read to get started?
I'm looking forward to your 10-15. I'm currently using your 9-13 for ideas in a game in progress.
Steven.
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Richard Pask
- Posts: 290
- Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:15 pm
- What do you like about checkers?: Much!
Re: New Transposition
Hello!
I think Derek Oldbury was right when he pointed to top-quality match games as being an excellent source of play. My first step was to index these - having acquired around 200 over the years - and then construct reliable lines of play from them.
Again, DEO was keen on statistics, arguing that the most commonly played line should , by rights, be defined as the trunk line, even if not the strongest play available.
I think my index to match games etc... is on the ACF website, or certainly The Checker Maven, so this might be a good starting, point for you.
Regarding the trasposition itself, I suppose the more play one has been over, the more likely you are to spot such things.
All the best, Richard
I think Derek Oldbury was right when he pointed to top-quality match games as being an excellent source of play. My first step was to index these - having acquired around 200 over the years - and then construct reliable lines of play from them.
Again, DEO was keen on statistics, arguing that the most commonly played line should , by rights, be defined as the trunk line, even if not the strongest play available.
I think my index to match games etc... is on the ACF website, or certainly The Checker Maven, so this might be a good starting, point for you.
Regarding the trasposition itself, I suppose the more play one has been over, the more likely you are to spot such things.
All the best, Richard
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Wavuti Uwepo
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:32 pm
- What do you like about checkers?: The practically unlimited play of the game.
- Location: Queensland, Australia
Re: New Transposition
Thanks for the advice, Richard. I've downloaded a couple of game collections in PDN.
Is there a program out there in the ether that writes a checkers move as well as the associated FEN to the clipboard?
For example, something like this-
1. 11-15 W:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,25,24,23,22,21:B15,12,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.
22-17 B:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,25,24,23,21,17:B15,12,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.
2. 8-11 W:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,25,24,23,21,17:B15,12,11,10,9,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.
25-22 B:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,24,23,22,21,17:B15,12,11,10,9,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.
3. 9-13 W:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,24,23,22,21,17:B15,13,12,11,10,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.
30-25 B:W32,31,29,28,27,26,25,24,23,22,21,17:B15,13,12,11,10,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.
4. 4-8 W:W32,31,29,28,27,26,25,24,23,22,21,17:B15,13,12,11,10,8,7,6,5,3,2,1.
24-19 B:W32,31,29,28,27,26,25,23,22,21,19,17:B15,13,12,11,10,8,7,6,5,3,2,1.
5. 15x24 W:W32,31,29,28,27,26,25,23,22,21,17:B24,13,12,11,10,8,7,6,5,3,2,1.
28x19 B:W32,31,29,27,26,25,23,22,21,19,17:B13,12,11,10,8,7,6,5,3,2,1.
6. etc.
I think it could be the ultimate tool for finding transpositions once you have a database of games. You would only have to search for duplicate FENs coming off differing PDNs!
(I had the PDN/FEN laid out nicely in columns by tabs but it didn't post that way...)
Is there a program out there in the ether that writes a checkers move as well as the associated FEN to the clipboard?
For example, something like this-
1. 11-15 W:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,25,24,23,22,21:B15,12,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.
22-17 B:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,25,24,23,21,17:B15,12,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.
2. 8-11 W:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,25,24,23,21,17:B15,12,11,10,9,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.
25-22 B:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,24,23,22,21,17:B15,12,11,10,9,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.
3. 9-13 W:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,24,23,22,21,17:B15,13,12,11,10,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.
30-25 B:W32,31,29,28,27,26,25,24,23,22,21,17:B15,13,12,11,10,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.
4. 4-8 W:W32,31,29,28,27,26,25,24,23,22,21,17:B15,13,12,11,10,8,7,6,5,3,2,1.
24-19 B:W32,31,29,28,27,26,25,23,22,21,19,17:B15,13,12,11,10,8,7,6,5,3,2,1.
5. 15x24 W:W32,31,29,28,27,26,25,23,22,21,17:B24,13,12,11,10,8,7,6,5,3,2,1.
28x19 B:W32,31,29,27,26,25,23,22,21,19,17:B13,12,11,10,8,7,6,5,3,2,1.
6. etc.
I think it could be the ultimate tool for finding transpositions once you have a database of games. You would only have to search for duplicate FENs coming off differing PDNs!
(I had the PDN/FEN laid out nicely in columns by tabs but it didn't post that way...)
Steven.
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Wavuti Uwepo
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:32 pm
- What do you like about checkers?: The practically unlimited play of the game.
- Location: Queensland, Australia
Re: New Transposition
Thanks for the CheckerBoard tips, John. I've had the program for over a year and I've only just recently discovered it can analyse games!
I've done a few searches already and I can now find archived games that run the same as the game I'm searching on. It's much faster than searching text files! Unfortunately, it can't seem to find a PDN with the current board position unless the trunk run-up is the same as the game on the board. I set the board up from a FEN so there was no run-up to the position and CheckerBoard couldn't find it even though the position was from a game from the recent WMSG in Lille and it was the PDN archive I asked it to search. But still, the search function as it is is great.
If I'm wrong and CheckerBoard can do current positional searches, I'd love to be corrected.
I've downloaded AutoHotKey and I'll play around with it a bit and see if I can do something with it.
(I should really just play more games...)
I've done a few searches already and I can now find archived games that run the same as the game I'm searching on. It's much faster than searching text files! Unfortunately, it can't seem to find a PDN with the current board position unless the trunk run-up is the same as the game on the board. I set the board up from a FEN so there was no run-up to the position and CheckerBoard couldn't find it even though the position was from a game from the recent WMSG in Lille and it was the PDN archive I asked it to search. But still, the search function as it is is great.
If I'm wrong and CheckerBoard can do current positional searches, I'd love to be corrected.
I've downloaded AutoHotKey and I'll play around with it a bit and see if I can do something with it.
(I should really just play more games...)
Steven.
-
Wavuti Uwepo
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:32 pm
- What do you like about checkers?: The practically unlimited play of the game.
- Location: Queensland, Australia
Re: New Transposition
I've mucked around with AutoHotKey and I've come up with this-
IfWinExist, CheckerBoard: KingsRow 1.16f ; Checks to see if this window exists.
; IMPORTANT
; You need to change this if you are using a different engine or a different version of KingsRow
WinActivate
StartFEN:
SendInput {Right} ; Right Arrow
Sleep, 100
SendInput !c ; Alt+C (copies FEN to clipboard)
Sleep, 100
SendInput {Space} ; Space (closes FEN box)
Sleep, 100
SendInput {Space} ; Space (opens Comment box)
Sleep, 100
SendInput ^v ; Ctrl+V (pastes FEN to Comment box)
Sleep, 100
SendInput {Enter} ; Enter (closes Comment box)
Sleep, 100
Goto, StartFEN ; Goes to 'StartFEN' and loops back, forever....
At the end of the conversion you just copy the PDN to clipboard and the FEN will be attached to each move.
I don't know how to stop the loop when it gets to the end of the game. I was trying to get it to stop when the CheckerBoard taskbar said "Forward not possible: End of game" but I don't have a clue how to do it.
This is the game I experimented on-
11-15 22-17 08-11 23-19 09-14 25-22 06-09 17-13 02-06 29-25
04-08 24-20 15-24 28-19 11-15 27-24 14-17 21-14 09-18 26-23
18-27 32-23 10-14 19-10 06-15 13-09 14-18 23-14 07-10 14-07
03-10 30-26 05-14 25-21 08-11 26-23 01-05 22-17 15-18 24-19
18-27 31-24 14-18 17-14 10-17 21-14 18-23 14-10 23-27 10-07
27-31 07-03 31-27 03-08 11-16 20-11 27-20
and this is part of the result-
[Event ""]
[Date ""]
[Black ""]
[White ""]
[Result ""]
1. 11-15 {W:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,25,24,23,22,21:B15,12,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.}
22-17 {B:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,25,24,23,21,17:B15,12,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.} 2. 8-11
{W:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,25,24,23,21,17:B15,12,11,10,9,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.} 23-19
{B:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,25,24,21,19,17:B15,12,11,10,9,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.} 3. 9-14
{W:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,25,24,21,19,17:B15,14,12,11,10,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.} 25-22
{B:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,24,22,21,19,17:B15,14,12,11,10,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.} 4. 6-9
{W:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,24,22,21,19,17:B15,14,12,11,10,9,7,5,4,3,2,1.} 17-13
{B:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,24,22,21,19,13:B15,14,12,11,10,9,7,5,4,3,2,1.} 5. 2-6
Anyone know how to stop it looping when it gets to the end? Right now I have to manually exit the script by clicking on the AutoHotKey icon in my taskbar.
IfWinExist, CheckerBoard: KingsRow 1.16f ; Checks to see if this window exists.
; IMPORTANT
; You need to change this if you are using a different engine or a different version of KingsRow
WinActivate
StartFEN:
SendInput {Right} ; Right Arrow
Sleep, 100
SendInput !c ; Alt+C (copies FEN to clipboard)
Sleep, 100
SendInput {Space} ; Space (closes FEN box)
Sleep, 100
SendInput {Space} ; Space (opens Comment box)
Sleep, 100
SendInput ^v ; Ctrl+V (pastes FEN to Comment box)
Sleep, 100
SendInput {Enter} ; Enter (closes Comment box)
Sleep, 100
Goto, StartFEN ; Goes to 'StartFEN' and loops back, forever....
At the end of the conversion you just copy the PDN to clipboard and the FEN will be attached to each move.
I don't know how to stop the loop when it gets to the end of the game. I was trying to get it to stop when the CheckerBoard taskbar said "Forward not possible: End of game" but I don't have a clue how to do it.
This is the game I experimented on-
11-15 22-17 08-11 23-19 09-14 25-22 06-09 17-13 02-06 29-25
04-08 24-20 15-24 28-19 11-15 27-24 14-17 21-14 09-18 26-23
18-27 32-23 10-14 19-10 06-15 13-09 14-18 23-14 07-10 14-07
03-10 30-26 05-14 25-21 08-11 26-23 01-05 22-17 15-18 24-19
18-27 31-24 14-18 17-14 10-17 21-14 18-23 14-10 23-27 10-07
27-31 07-03 31-27 03-08 11-16 20-11 27-20
and this is part of the result-
[Event ""]
[Date ""]
[Black ""]
[White ""]
[Result ""]
1. 11-15 {W:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,25,24,23,22,21:B15,12,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.}
22-17 {B:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,25,24,23,21,17:B15,12,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.} 2. 8-11
{W:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,25,24,23,21,17:B15,12,11,10,9,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.} 23-19
{B:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,25,24,21,19,17:B15,12,11,10,9,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.} 3. 9-14
{W:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,25,24,21,19,17:B15,14,12,11,10,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.} 25-22
{B:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,24,22,21,19,17:B15,14,12,11,10,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.} 4. 6-9
{W:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,24,22,21,19,17:B15,14,12,11,10,9,7,5,4,3,2,1.} 17-13
{B:W32,31,30,29,28,27,26,24,22,21,19,13:B15,14,12,11,10,9,7,5,4,3,2,1.} 5. 2-6
Anyone know how to stop it looping when it gets to the end? Right now I have to manually exit the script by clicking on the AutoHotKey icon in my taskbar.
Steven.
-
Wavuti Uwepo
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:32 pm
- What do you like about checkers?: The practically unlimited play of the game.
- Location: Queensland, Australia
Re: New Transposition
Here's some code that works! I got some help from the AutoHotKey.com forum. It's still a little dirty but it combines the FEN and PDN as one file that you can copy and paste from the clipboard.
IfWinExist, CheckerBoard: KingsRow 1.16f
WinActivate
StartFEN:
SendInput {Right} ; Right Arrow
Sleep, 100
SendInput !c ; Alt+C (copies FEN to clipboard)
Sleep, 100
SendInput {Space} ; Space (closes FEN box)
Sleep, 100
SendInput {Space} ; Space (opens Comment box)
Sleep, 100
SendInput ^v ; Ctrl+V (pastes FEN to Comment box)
Sleep, 100
SendInput {Enter} ; Enter (closes Comment box)
Sleep, 100
ControlGetText, StatusbarText, msctls_statusbar321
if InStr(StatusbarText, "End of game")
msgbox, Game over
Goto, StartFEN ; Goes to 'StartFEN'
IfWinExist, CheckerBoard: KingsRow 1.16f
WinActivate
StartFEN:
SendInput {Right} ; Right Arrow
Sleep, 100
SendInput !c ; Alt+C (copies FEN to clipboard)
Sleep, 100
SendInput {Space} ; Space (closes FEN box)
Sleep, 100
SendInput {Space} ; Space (opens Comment box)
Sleep, 100
SendInput ^v ; Ctrl+V (pastes FEN to Comment box)
Sleep, 100
SendInput {Enter} ; Enter (closes Comment box)
Sleep, 100
ControlGetText, StatusbarText, msctls_statusbar321
if InStr(StatusbarText, "End of game")
msgbox, Game over
Goto, StartFEN ; Goes to 'StartFEN'
Steven.