The Kingsrow 10-piece database is now available

[Ed Gilbert]

A number of people have asked for this, and now it possible for me to distribute it. Details are at the kingsrow web site. http://pages.prodigy.net/eyg/Checkers/KingsRow.htm

-- Ed

[Alex_Moiseyev]

Ed, I just translated and copied your announcement to the Russian Checkers site http://www.shashki.com

Alex

[Patrick Parker]

............

[Ed Gilbert]

Hi Patrick,

The external USB hard drive contains a compressed install package. You have to install the database on another hard drive. I set it up this way for 3 reasons: 1) access to USB drives is slower than internal drives, so the performance would not be as good if you ran it from the USB drive. 2) if your hard drive should become corrupted, you still have the install disk so you can re-install the database. 3) the install package takes up less space this way so I can put it on a smaller USB drive and offer it at a lower cost.

As far as performance goes, the search speed is about the same as it is with the 8-piece db. But there is no comparison in its playing strength. There is nothing like using the 10-piece db for analyzing positions.

-- Ed

[Ed Gilbert]

Patrick,

I should also mention that internal hard drives are inexpensive and it's usually a very simple thing to add to a PC. At newegg.com, where I buy a lot of my computer parts, 320GB hard drives are about $75. I imagine you could go to your local computer store and have them install one for not too much more. Similarly, RAM is at the moment quite inexpensive. You can buy a 1GB RAM stick for less than $100.

-- Ed

[Alex_Moiseyev]

My computer is relatively old - 2001. I have to get a new one anyway, so - it will not be an extra expances here I am going to order 500-600 GB hard drive and 2,5 GB RAM.

Money should return back from prizes in ty's and matches

Alex

[Ed Gilbert]

Today I placed a new kingsrow install package at the web site. It contains an updated engine with search improvements and a larger opening book. It also has full support for the 10-pc database.

I almost forgot to mention that some of the eval improvements in this version are the result of suggestions made by our 3-move champion Alex Moiseyev. Thank you Alex for your help and support!

-- Ed

[Michael Holmes]

This is awesome! On the 1st (when I get paid again) I will order this database. This is an incredible service and I thank you very much Ed. After this, my email questions to him should be reduced dramaticially
Thanks again,
Michael Holmes

[tommyc]

Put me down for one too ED........and like Michael i wont trouble you 1/2 as much.

[Patrick Parker]

...........

[Patrick Parker]

...........

[Ed Gilbert]

also the guy said until vista can run 4-5 gigs it wont run on vista
he told me this after he read the kingsrows webpage but maybe
someone else has made it work

Patrick, that is nonsense, because you can use the 10pc db with as little as 1-1/2gb of ram (as it says on the kingsrow web page), and it works very well with 2gb. There is no need to use more than that, but you can use as much as 3gb on 32-bit Vista or XP Pro by using the /3gb switch in boot.ini. If you're running 64-bit Vista or XP its even easier, you can give the database as much as 3gb without needing the /3gb switch.

BTW, I earlier recommended not installing the db on an external drive because of speed, but I got a report from someone who had to do that because of constraints on his laptop, and he reported good performance. When I am home later I will post some of his comments.

-- Ed

[Ed Gilbert]

can u run the database from the external hard drive or
do you need to put it on an internal one?
as far as possibility and reasonability
will it work
or will it just work too slowly

Patrick, here is an email I received from someone who is using it on a laptop with an external hard drive. This might help answer your questions.

-- Ed


-------------------------
Ed,

After this first day of testing the 10 piece DB, I have had no errors, and no problems. I contradicted myself and ran about 260 5 second per move games and KR performed superbly against Cake winning 13, losing 1, and drawing 246. I knew this would put KR at a big disadvantage by not giving it ample time to pull information from the external drive but I really wanted to put it to the test and it still performed fast. I checked the one loss and clearly it just needed time. KR found the right move easily in a few seconds but these were a few seconds it didn't get at blitz time control.

I highly recommend anyone who has the resources to run KR but only lacking in HD space to get it and use it this way. It is MUCH better to have it and enjoy it at a slightly reduced speed than to not have it. I am very satisfied with the speed and performance. I am amazed it is as quick as it is.

It is so awesome and so far above humans in solving so many positions that it will give just totally different solutions to problems and it will leave you scratching your head and having an ounce of doubt at first that, maybe the program is wrong, then it comes through with the proof by winning or drawing when it is supposed to as I see it so far.

I took a game from 1947 between Tinsley and Hellman on Jim Loy's pages and the notes implied Tinsley made some mistakes. I admit, I didn't run it at 5 minutes per move but I did leave it on key moves running on infinite for a while and even analyzed it later at 30 seconds per move. In all instances neither player made an error according to KR. This disagrees with Jim Loy. The link is here if you ever wish to check it out. http://www.jimloy.com/checkers/minotaur.htm It was an Minotaur opening.

I haven't really been able to directly be aware of the MTC doing what it is supposed to do during my tests other than the files you have on your site. I did check some out and it is truly amazing.

At times today in these quick games, I did see some positions where KR moved a short series of moves very quickly but I wasn't able to read what was happening. It may have been accessing the MTC during these times. When I check "about" they are working as well as the 10 piece DB.

For the record, and coincidentally, I had purchased a 320 GB Maxtor drive just like the one you sent about an hour before Fed Ex delivered on Saturday. It is very fast and I am very pleased with it.

Thanks for making this available.

Tony
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[Michael Holmes]

Good News. Mine should be on the way by now. I should receive it no later than Friday. I am looking forward to using this gift from Mr. Gilbert.

[Michael Holmes]

How much Ram did that person have on their laptop? I am trying to decide on whether to upgrade my laptop or just buy a new one. I have 512mb and I know you need at least 1.5gb of RAM for the full installation and I have a 80gb hard drive and it appears that you need at least 261gb of free space for the full installation. I plan on using an external hard drive for this. How fast was the external hard drive that the laptop user was using?

Thanks,
Michael