Numbered boards and scoresheets

[jimloy]

I wish everyone would use a numbered board, always. In the National Ty. in Vegas last summer, everyone who turned in scoresheets (game sheets) misrecorded several moves. A couple of the games are unreadable. A couple of the games took several hours to decode. Several players do not record their moves at all, and so (in most tournaments) a few games are never recorded. Several of the players (maybe six of the Masters who were in Vegas) are very good at recording their games, sometimes making one or two easily corrected typos. But in that tournament, maybe 80 per cent of the Masters' scoresheets contained multiple errors. Also, it was very rare that both players turned in scoresheets, and I thought that was the law. The Masters, and everyone else, should use numbered boards.

I was told, many years ago, that numbered boards are illegal in a tournament. My understanding of the current ACF laws is that either player can insist that a numbered board not be used. Maybe that law should be repealed. Regardless, I ask all players, please allow your opponent to use a numbered board if he/she wants one.

The ACF has more or less outlawed X's for captures on the scoresheet. My reasons for supporting that law were that X's greatly confuse the scoresheet when there is some typo (everyone who uses X's sometimes writes X when the capture was ambiguous) and it really slows down the deciphering of the moves even when done perfectly. But, when several captures are made rapidly, X's may actually make the scoresheet clearer. Taking a timeout to record the series of captures may not work, as the captures are likely to be misrecorded anyway, and such a timeout is really distracting when thinking must be done. So, I am changing my opinion of X's. I am now in favor of them. But, please be careful when using them.

Why are there Masters who don't record their games? I thought almost everyone recorded every game, and then studied these games, in order to improve. In my case, this process gets depressing, but don't you have to do it? And if you record all of your games, then you will become less distracted by the process, and you will become very accurate at recording games.

[Alan Millhone]

Hello Mr. Loy:

Thanks for your posting. I will let Mr. Alex reply on use of numbered boards before I post a reply

Sincerely:
Alan Millhone, President
American Checker Federation

[william]

Hi Jim

Interesting points you're making here ; and I would like to ask Ingo ( who is probably still having a tough job deciphering everyone's games from China ) actually how many mistakes I did make !! I definately know I made some , but I may get an even bigger shock than i could imagine!!!

Of course Jim this is not due to ignorance of the notation systems , but of ty. pressure ; time trouble ; or weak psychological preparation for ty. , manifesting itself via these incomprehensable mistakes among others and I'm sure I do not only speak for myself here.

In saying this , i do not believe that a numbered board would help .

A move must only be noted after the move is played ...

Lets say that I want to play 8-11 ...
If I am really illiterate do I know what number is under the man to be moved?
No but i know where to go ... to 11 ... so I move ... now I see 8 but can't remember which square I was moving to because
it is now covered by the man just moved!!!!
I am just starting out and want to make sure i abide by ty rules ( even though I notice that on the next table that a certain grandmaster has decided not to note his games!! ) so before moving I ask my opponent ; who is an international master if i can lift up the man to be moved so as to see the number!! He obviously laughs at me , stating that he wants to play in serious professional conditions ...
I decide to write 11 move the man then write 8 !!! Surely someone will understand! In my next game I will emulate that grandmaster ... and refrain from noting down my games


This is absurd but probably could happen or maybe has even happened before!!
The best solution , and once again this comes from my experience in playing 10x10 at top level is a small portable board , numbered which can be placed next to score sheet and all numbers are easily seen .

We all make mistakes , but nothing can be worse than a master or grandmaster or world champion being cautioned for not writing down his games , this I believe must be sanctioned without warning

Greetings

WILLIAM DOCHERTY

[john reade]

Josh, Are you offering to pay for this? John.

[whitefork]

How can one prove time default without a complete scoresheet?
How can the position be reconstructed after an illegal move and replies?
How can one prove that 40 moves without promotion or movement of a single piece in order to claim a draw?
The ACF should adopt the US Chess Federation's tournament rules with regard to clocks and keeping score.
It's a critical part of maintaining the integrity and credibility of the game.

I think clocks should be required at all levels of play although this may deter players coming into the game. However all chess players either understand the use of clocks when they enter a tournament, or learn the use through painful experience.

[tommyc]

If I am really illiterate do I know what number is under the man to be moved? SAYS BILLY........ ..................

This is where quite intellegent men make an :!: of themselves Amost everyone knows that the numbers are usually in the corner of the sq NOT COVERED BY THE PIECE.....GRANDMASTER.

jIM LOY IS QUITE RIGHT AND IM NOT TALKING ABT HELPING MASTER PLAYERS JUST ORDINARY GUYS WHO WANT TO FEEL AT NO DISADVANTAGE IN THE NUMBERS FIELD.Now who is that hurting is ask you, but it seems master players want to dominate and domineer ev1 below them..they used to be called bullys..wonder wat the term is now......keep burying yur head n the sand SON???

[william]

Mr canning

Either you were on the bottle when you wrote that reply , or in the past I have seriously offended you , unintentionally.!!!

In any case you will have to enlighten me , so that we can get things straight before we meet again ...

Obviously , you did not read between the lines , which is strange because i always considered you to be an intelligent person.

Your persistent use of pegoritive phrasing when adressing your posts to anyone seems to reveal some amount of jealousy and I cannot understand this reaction as you yourself are a world class opponent for anyone.

BUT LETS GET THIS CLEAR . I AM READY TO SHARE ANY EXPERIENCE , HOWEVER LITTLE THAT I HAVE , TO HELP STUDENTS , LEARNERS CALL THEM WHATEVER YOU LIKE , LEARN OUR FABULOUS GAME ... YOU WILL NOT HOWEVER HEAR ME CALL ANY ONE A DUFFER ...I HOPE YOU GET THIS MR. CANNING I AWAIT YOUR REPLY

WILLIAM DOCHERTY

OH and just because , as we all are now and again , a little susceptible , I did not auto proclaim the title of grandmaster , this was given to me due to albeit my few ty. and matchplay results .. should I apologise..let me know.

[tommyc]

I AM READY TO SHARE ANY EXPERIENCE , HOWEVER LITTLE THAT I HAVE , TO HELP STUDENTS , LEARNERS CALL THEM WHATEVER YOU LIKE , LEARN OUR FABULOUS GAME ... Billy said!!................

This the only part of yur reply which is of interest ,which is quite good.......so!! why dont yu lend yur weight to to help these players.You can do so by lending yu voice to the use of numbered boards,which as i said offends no one and as far as i know are as legal as un-numbered boards.It would be interesting to see where this supposed rule is in the "book of rules".

I have to say yur have nvr offended me intentionally or otherwise but i call a "spade a spade" and as far as im concerned those who attempt to foil the use of unnumbered boards are doing nothing but damage to any aspiring player at watever level he/she is at.

Jim Loy pointed out the problems even master players have in notations so yu can imagine wat its like for lower levels surely.....personally i cannot for the life of me understand the opposition to Jim Loys idea which i have called for too on many occasions solely to help and ease playing conditions.

I may have been rash in my post and no offense was intended and you know i dont mince my words...........but this whole thing get up my back when i hear pple who know better scoring a few cheap points to the detriment of the game.

This whole area needs to be discussed .

[william]

The only numbered boards that i am in favour of are the portable ones which have been tried and tested for over 30 years on the 10x10 circuit. they can even be homemade out of card board with big numbers for the short sighted !

The boards ( if not the players ) must remain professional looking.

And I would be the first to use a small board if this were rule ( knowing how well it is to mix up during crucial points of game the numbers)

This is best solution ( apart from the electronic one which unfortunately would be as of today too costly)

[tommyc]

So you are in fav of numbered boards ...........great !!!

and once again this comes from my experience in playing 10x10 at top level is a small portable board , numbered which can be placed next to score sheet and all numbers are easily seen .....Billy said

Im afraid i misunderstood you the first time...............NO NO NO...............in my opinion once you have to look away from the playing board to look for a number offa the "mobile board"...........this defeats the whole purpose and breaks the concentration ........i cant agree as it will cause more time delay in you r notation therefore deafeating the whole idea.!!

[jimloy]

I may have more experience writing and typing checker moves than anyone in history, having typed hundreds of thousands of games (I just finished typing Wood's Checker Studies and will soon be moving on to the American Checkerist). And I am among the most accurate at it. But I do make mistakes, as shown by my scoresheets from Vegas. Most of the mistakes would have been avoided if I had used a numbered board, as there are colors reversed errors and an occasional 8-11 that should have been 11-15. I know very well where 11 and 15 are, honest, but sometimes that little number on the board would help.

[Palomino]

I thought it might help to have pictures of a numbered board, the type I believe tommy has in mind.





Regards, ...Pal

[tommyc]

Yes and very nice too Pal...........now how could anyone be offended by these and i note marked "Official Ty Checkerboards"

Lets try and help players not put obsticles in their way.

[william]

OK

I was sceptical , never having seen a numbered board before , but this actually looks quite discrete . In practice , though , has it been proven that there are " not as many " mistakes?

My only objection now to numbered boards could be the cost of renewing the entire board parc !!!

Apart from that I'm in ...

WILLIAM DOCHERTY

[tommyc]

Haaa ...........haaa.........whats it they say abt the Scottish???.....................skinflints?? hmmm