Independent challenge.

[Alex_Moiseyev]

So, William may not yet be the “King” though well on the way, no doubt. The WCDF rules do not preclude a private challenge and I also would wish to be a contributor to such a match.

I find this conversation and subject quite interesting and decided to open this topic.

When WCDF was created in 2003, I proposed them to include into BY-LAWS couple lines of text which says that independent challenge is allow. They didn't do this, however, as Liam mentioned, there is nothing at all written which means - it's not prohibited.

In my eyes there are three conditions which need to be meet for successful Independent Challenge.

1) The candidacy of Independent Chalenger must be still approve by WCDF. It has to be someone recognised by community and being among top 10-20 world class players. It cannot be someone from the street who just has a good money in pocket

2) Price money fund must be reasonable and higher than what we have today in offficial matches sanctioned by WCDF among World Champion and winner of Qualify Tournament.

3) World Champion has to accept challenge. This simply means that in official matches champion unconditionally has to defend his/her title every two years and don't have a choice ... or will be fortfeited. For Independent challenge champion has a right to accept or decline challenge without any penalty.

If I keep my title, I, personally, would accept independent challenge from 10-12 players today. In reality, only 3 or 4 of them have some chances to win match and William and Shane certainly belong here.

Concerning financial aspect ... I would accept independent challenge if $25,000 will be raise with 60-40-50 split, or if organisers give me in front $12,500 disregard what will be result of match. This means - if independent challenger don't worry about money but is eager for title, (s)he can pay me my dozen and ... try to get title !

I also should say that I had in the beginning of this year serious conversation with one potential independent challenger, but his sponsors finally withdrew offer, because they were not sure he has a serious chances to win match at the moment.

Respectfully,

Alex Moiseyev

[tommyc]

When WCDF was created in 2003, I proposed them to include into BY-LAWS couple lines of text which says that independent challenge is allow. They didn't do this, however, as Liam mentioned, there is nothing at all written which means - it's not prohibited............................Alex
PRECEDANT
Well there is a precedent .........when i made an independant challenge for Mac Banks World Mail title in 2005 it was okd by the WCDF,so the precedent has already been set....on that occasion Mac retained by way of 24 draws,and there hasnt been a Mail title challenge match since ,either official or independant.

[Alex_Moiseyev]

PRECEDANT

Cheap talk anyway. I haven't heard anything about serious independent challenge since 2003 ... no takers. All we need - challenger and $12,500. We don't need precednt.

Do you know someone who is interested ?

Alex

[tommyc]

Surely you know what a precedent it,once its set it cannot be removed.So what evr abt the $12,000 ransom which i doubt there will be any takers on .........nevertheless the precedent has been set and independant challenge is possible.

[Alex_Moiseyev]

nevertheless the precedent has been set and independant challenge is possible.

Yes, true, and thank you for setting a precedent. Good thing to know. Refreshing my memory, I think first Francis vs King match in 2004 also was independent.

Concerning $12,500 ... you right, it's very big money but not crazy $$$$$$$$$. There is an official chanal through QT where you don't have to raise this sum. Independent Challenge - something special. Independent Challenger should trully beleive and be confident that (s)he has a chances to win match.

I spoke once with Ron King about possibility to play Independent GAYP Match. He said: "Why not ?" and ... provided the same amount, $20,000, 60-40-50.

Alex

[Michael Holmes]

Why would someone make a challenge with a bid worth more than the current 4500 that is for the upcoming World Championship Match?

[Alex_Moiseyev]

Michael, as I said - official match is official, Champion cannot ignore it and SHOULD play or will be fortfeited.

Indepenedent match is possible, if challenger, lets say yourself, believe he has a chance to win match, but missed QT or didn't do well. Also we may have "match players" like Shane McCoskey who seems to be better match player (I might be wrong with my assumption, he probably is OK in both) than tournament.

Sometimes to win Qualify Tournament is much harder task than play match.

And we need much bigger fund for Independent Match, because it's something special and Champion doesn't have obligations to play this match ... especally for few bucks.

In general you right - if you are good enought to win QT, you don't need Independent Challenge.

Alex

[tommyc]

Maybe somewhere between $4.5k and $20K may be possible for a World Title Challenge is there a compromise here that can be reached for Michael ? ? Alex?

[Alex_Moiseyev]

Maybe somewhere between $4.5k and $20K may be possible for a World Title Challenge is there a compromise here that can be reached for Michael ? ? Alex?

Tommy, $20K was Ron King offer for GAYP title. I mentioned $25K for 60-40-50 or $12,5K in front of match disregard result.

In 2005 official WCM in Anderson, SC, the whole deal was $15,000 including all expances. Forget about $4,500 !!!

[Jay H]

For Independent challenge champion has a right to accept or decline challenge without any penalty.

Excepting the ruling of the court of public opinion.....


Regards

Jay H

[Hugh Devlin]

WCDF Byelaws :

6.12 The WCDF recognises a World Champion’s right to make a voluntary defence of their title to an independent challenger. However such a match must not interfere with the normal schedule of events as outlined in 6.2.