2010 Southern News & Results

[jpost]

Alright, thanks for the recommendations. If we're wanting to get more youth involved in checkers, raising the prize money for minors isn't the way to do it; that just gives them less incentive to continue to a more competitive division like majors or masters. Furthermore, it's like paying the NBA's D-League more than the NBA players. It will make the NBA players want to get paid, so what incentive do they have to stay in the NBA and not drop down to the D-League, thus weakening the strength of our majors/masters divisions?

It's obvious we have some problems attracting young players. What we need is money we don't really have to promote the game in schools. The biggest problem, in my opinion, is that checkers (and chess as well, but chess has a little better reputation than checkers, so they can survive) is a tough game to play competitively. First off, it was almost chance that I met Larry Jordan on VOG--a great player and even better person who is also from Arkansas, and someone who single-handedly is responsible for my entry into competitive checkers--who told me about the tournament they hold every year in Arkansas. I went and was paired with Jerry Childers first round (at age 10!), and lost every match save one. But I stayed positive and kept playing.

You have to lose a lot to learn how to win, we can all say that's hardly a platitude. The problem is that most states don't have these state tournaments to attract young players at a regional level. After J.B. Morris passed, they have stopped holding the Arkansas tournament. How many state tournaments do we hold a year now? And it's not something I can necessarily be critical of as much as lament, because we simply don't have the people to hold these tournaments in every state. States like Arkansas, Louisiana, and plenty more don't hold tournaments. And we're in the South, which is really the last stronghold of good checkers (meaning no insult to the Northerners or Westerners, but Southern States and the TN Open seem to be two of the biggest tournaments of the year).

What we need is to launch a massive recruiting campaign to get youth involved again, which is certainly easier said than done. I would say do this by hyping up a national youth tournament within the next few years, but it'll be hard to attract casual players to get their families to drive potentially halfway across the nation. So the challenge lies in getting these casual players to begin playing seriously in competitive scenarios. In my opinion, I think getting casual players to get serious will start on the competitive checker websites (I'm thinking Kurnik). Players will hear about tournaments there. It will be the starting point I think, but so much still lies in the young player taking it upon himself to play competitively. Anyone have any other suggestions on how we can do this?

Sorry I wrote War and Peace here for you guys. Just my thinking on the whole thing.

[tommyc]

Wat alotta crap John for one so young..................i always thought that the NBA Basketball league was some form of enterainment .................nobody in ther right mind would pay-in to watch 2 people playing draughts no matter wat level they are ,quite simply the comparison between draught and PROFESSIONAL sports are miles apart...............and never the two shall meet.

Let me ask a simple question if say yu win a Ty the options are :: you can take $25 as 1st prize OR....YOU CAN TAKE $75 1st prize, would i be wrong to assume you would take the $25?

I say give the youth some respect , fair dues and fair prizes and maybe .just maybe you might get a few players.

[Alex_Moiseyev]

I say give the youth some respect , fair dues and fair prizes and maybe .just maybe you might get a few players.

Tommy, you forgot smiles again People may confuse and think that you are talking seriously.

[jpost]

You're basically saying that the payment checker players receive for tournament play is nothing more than a token payment, compared to the NBA, which is people paying for entertainment. I get that. Conceptually though, my point still stands strong. But let me make the point that I should've made in the first place. If kids are getting into checkers for the money, THEN THEY PICKED THE WRONG GAME. Sorry, but $50 when I'm a kid wouldn't have affected my decision to keep playing the game. The love of the game is what kept me playing, and that's the same thing that should keep anyone playing.

With all due respect tommyc (not that you deserve much, with the way you've been talking on this thread), you're simply asking for too much. You are asking for the ACF to stop rewarding masters players--who have studied for years and have gone through a lot more than youth players--and give concessions to new players that, quite frankly, don't deserve the reward they'd be getting. We need to promote the LOVE of the game, not the REWARDS of the game.

[Alex_Moiseyev]

We need to promote the LOVE of the game, not the REWARDS of the game.

Well said, sir !!!

Only when people get LOVE to the game, they become addictive It's not the point to get people to start, the point it to get them to the level when they can't quit !

And what newcomer should think, if (s)he see that masters get miserable $25-$50 ?

I won recently very prestigious Southern States Tourney and received $150. Thats not enough to cover hotel, gas and food but make savings more than 70%. What would be a difference if we divide this amount among 6 peole giving $25 to each ? Do you think all parents immediately jump on checkers and encourage their kids to study game and play for living ?

[Jay H]

Millard Hopper also wrote a a thirty-two page pamphlet called The Major Tactics of Checkers which is quite good; probably my favorite "How-To-Play" type of book... it is maybe a notch or two beyond complete beginner level but not at all hard to understand (after all, I pretty much understood it so how hard can it be?). It was published in 1939. There is a lot packed into the thirty-two pages; the print is very small; I, alas, usually have to use a magnifying glass to read it... .

It includes in additon to tactical instruction many illustrative games and some excellent problems (example from the pamphlet's cover: R - 5, 9, 16, 25K; W- 23, 28, 31, 32; White to move and win in three moves).

The problem is, of course, finding a copy and I don't think it is published online (but it might be; I could not find it).....

Anyhow, if you can find a copy it's a worthwhile study guide and would make a nice gift to someone who wants to start playing the game.

V/R,

Gary Jenkins/jaguar72

The WNYC Archive file copy of this is on exhibit at....

http://www.online-museum-of-checkers-hi ... m/id2.html

Hit the link and scroll down.
It is in PDF format.....

Regards

Jay H

[jpost]

Agreed John. But it's easy to say we need mentors in the game. I'm hesitant to say we set up a mentoring "program," as that seems like it would force friendships a little too much. What we do need, though, is to make sure that we as older players are there as facilitators to the younger players: befriend them, make sure they know about tournaments close to them, and be a positive father figure for them. Checkers has, unfortunately, become a game of hand-me-downs, of taking dog-eared and broken-spined out-of-print books that you've drained all the knowledge you can out of them and giving them to a younger player for their own use. I was given my checker board, and I've been given several incredibly important books (the most important probably "Checkers The Tinsley Way" given to me by Steve Dick). Again, these were all given to me by mentors.

Unfortunately, a lot of the youth have gotten caught up in the 1/0 craze, which is, in my opinion, a sort of urban sub-culture to checkers, but one that features mainly crude and unpolished talent. 1/0 doesn't interest many of the older players, so this has created a sort of dichotomy between the younger players and the older players, who both play on the same website (Kurnik) but pretty much stay away from each other, making it hard to set up any sort of friendships or mentorships for the younger players.

I'm not saying that all the 1/0 players have talent, but they are largely underrated in competitive checkers, mostly because they don't come out and play. I remember ten years ago on VOG, when everyone was bashing Internet players like Clint Olsen, Steve Jones, Clayton Nash, etc. for being basically programs, or not being able to compete in a tournament level, and then Clint went on to win the Majors at that year's Nationals, and Steve ended up winning majors one year as well I think, or placed top 3, in addition to competing against the UK in an international match. Clayton is also a mid-master, as you'll see by his 7th place showing in the 2007 Nationals.

They weren't necessarily 1/0 players, but they were players raised on a form of Internet checkers. Again, these people have talent, and so do plenty of other Internet players. And even if some of them don't, what's it hurt to try to get them to come out and play? All they can do is get better. This is a untapped reservoir of talent that we need to try to take advantage of. Again, just thinking out loud.

[MikeChoate]

I would rather have had a win in the last game that I played John Post for the Southern Majors Championship than to have won the entire tournament purse and I'll bet John feels the same way

It was truly an honor for me to watch some of the master players play, men like Alex, Larry Keen, Jim Morrison, Dr. John Webster and all the others. I feel that they should be rewarded for not only the hard work that they have put into improving their own play but for they way that they have helped promote the game over the years by encouraging the other players to rise to the next level of competition.

The bottom line is this Play for the Love of the Game

[jaguar72]

The WNYC Archive file copy of this is on exhibit at....

http://www.online-museum-of-checkers-hi ... m/id2.html

Hit the link and scroll down.
It is in PDF format.....

Regards

Jay H

You are the man, Jay!!

And I can even read it without a magnifying glass... .

Aut inveniam viam aut faciam indeed. You did.

V/R,

Gary Jenkins/jaguar72

[waynegober]

I have been reading with interest the posts. Most everything being posted is out of frustration. We love the game and wish more young and old played it. I have thought of starting a thread where everyone could post what they thought would help us to our goal. If there is interest someone could start that thread.

Anyhow, my personal thought is that somehow we, me , us, the ACF ect. have let things slip. Ithink we have to start doing the little things right again before we can even dream of big improvements.

My one suggestion for improvement (this is just today's suggestion, I may want to add more)

Post the list of state, dist. national champions in the ACF bulletin. I think it was an error to drop that feature.
Before you think, I just want my name in there. I was an ACF member for about 14 years before I ever won a state title.
I always looked at the list of champions and dreamed of being in that company some day.................

Wayne

[tommyc]

Master players generally or at least very few of them do anything to promote the game and 99% of them have nvr run a Ty.Of course the last few previous posts master players will love now that minor players are happy to take the crumbs that are left after they have got theirs.Maybe you will try this out and ask yourself in all the Tys youve been this past few yrs;......name me any master player who has run a Ty other than Rich Beckwith hes abt the only one i can name.

Anyway as you can see from the evidence few become master players till they are old(er) men,so theres something to look forward to in another 30 yrs time,i mean thereare literally millions of football players but very few are real superstars.So we have abt 1000 draughts players in the world playing competitively have we got 5-6 topnotch players maybe,so you see there are only a few Peles or Goeorge Bests the rest of us are just ordinary humans fighting to climb that hill and it shouldnt take long to find out if your the wheat or the chaff,so content yourselves with playing at yur own level watever that may be and thats where the real enjoyment is ,not trying to be another Alex Moiseyev as the old addage says if yu aint got iit you cant buy it.So forget the pie in the sky play and enjoy your games and if improvement comes along then lucky you because i my experience MORE PLAYERS ARE LOST CLIMBING THAT HILL THAN ANY OTHER REASON .....is it the lack of ability the lack of effort ,no its not ,more the realisation that you wont be the one to climb Mount Everest..........thats where most players go eventually and fall between their dreams and their disapointment (some describe this as between a rock and a hard place).

But to get back to the original point that John Post made:...........where can he get someone to not to sell him another book but help him to a way of understanding checkers more ,i have to say i asked the very same question many yrs ago and nvr found an answer.Maybe someone in higher power can answer that but ive yet to see anything in print as to the"understanding" of the process and doubt i ever will.

[tommyc]

John Post..............If kids are getting into checkers for the money, THEN THEY PICKED THE WRONG GAME.

I have to agree whole heartedly that there is no money in checkers and anyone(Alex) who dreams of profeesional career in this game is dolally.The point is the spoils should be shared more honorably and the minors and majors ought not to be seen to be supplementing the masters prize fund.Im not in any way at supposing that the masters prizes be less,just that the pot be divided more equally and thats the way to get more young players ,equality and fairness,mind you there no guarantee this will work its is but one opinion and Wayne has also proposed his opinion re the ACF Bullitin.

[tommyc]

I meant master players not players who play in the masters.Anyways between them all in the last 2 yrs yuve got 4.I hope yur not a mathematics teacher for the sake of the pupils................and forget Charlie Walker he just gives the place a bad name.

[Mac Banks]

Hello John ,

What I think Tommy meant to say was to promote a checker tourney such as you are doing for the upcoming U. S. National tourney. We used to have great promoters of the game that worked year around to insure there was a good prize fund in a tourney. Mr. Boland from Texas promoted the Southern tourney for many years at Tupelo, Miss. There are very few promoters today and the money for a tourney has to come from the checker players when no promoter is out there promoting an upcoming checker tourney. Gerry Lopez, from Temecula, Ca. is another promoter who promoted the Las Vegas tournies. One of the problems, I have seen from young players, and I hope this doesn't happen to you John, is that they start early and often in their teens have a love for the game and some have even won the majors at a very young age. I remember a player from Michigan I think in the 70's won 32 points in the minors first time around against a strong field. Then the young player often goes to college and discovers women and end up having to make a living and then don't get back into the game for many years. The true fact of the matter is that economics dictate to a large extent whether a young family can afford to take off work using their vacation to play checkers and the expense to go to a tourney.
I have been in the game for over 60 years and I think there are more good young players today than ever before.
The problem is that the older players are dying out and there was a good many years of having none or only one are two younger players to pick up the slack. If Checkers are to survive, and I believe it will then it will take young players like yourself that is willing to promote checker tournies when possible. There is no easy solution to the problem today with the numbers getting smaller each year. I want to thank you personally for taking on a tough task of promoting a National tourney. John, you can count on me donating a $100 to the National tourney. I will send you a check for $100.

All the best,
Mac Banks

[bugs]

A GREAT BIG HAND to Trey........ I am so proud of you.. I hope you go on to be a Master Champ one day. Congrts to you young man...