11-man ballot

[kim willis]

Hi all I know most of you want some results on the 11-man ballot that is going on now so I have results after 3 rds

Alex M 10pts
Tim L 10pts
Joe McCellan 8pts
Bill McClintock 8pts
Mike Ross 7pts
John Webster 7pts
Teal Stanley 6pts
Ted Williamson 5pts
J.R Smith 5pts
Alan Millhone 5pts
James Martin 5pts
James Atkins 3pts
Bill Stanley 2pts

More later

kim

[Palomino]

Thanks Kim,

Keep us posted.

[B Salot]

The title of this thread seems appropriate for a question I have been wanting to ask for decades.

I have never played an 11-man ballot game. But I have read a lot about them.

I have been acquainted with a number of masters over the years, enough to know that they 1) practiced a lot against strong competition and 2) were well booked up with many prepared lines. This obviously gave them a huge advantage over opponents with little practice and little book knowledge. I think heavy practice and prepared lines provide a great advantage in "Blitz" games as well.

In contrast, it seems obvious that book lines very seldom come up in 11-man ballot games. Under such circumstances, the advantage of book knowledge must diminish or disappear.

But the same masters who win GAYP, 2-move, and 3-Move tournaments invariably lock up the top spots in 11-man ballot tournaments as well.

It would appear that the crossboard analytical skill that comes with hard practice, rather than book knowledge, provides the advantage for the masters in the 11-man ballot world.

So my question is:

In order to become a master specifically in the 11-man ballot game, what, if anything, should a beginner study in addition to practicing a lot against strong players? (Assume the beginner has no interest in any other style of play.)

Bill Salot

[JR Smith]

Bill, I think you have a good understanding of 11-Man. Although in this past tournament, Alex and Tim shared knowledge with the rest of us, particularly pointing out one opening from tournament play that was from the 3-Move Ballot of which they said there were several more opening like the 3-move openings. I didn't know this, which they stated Marion Tinsley had mentioned this in conversation. But you are correct in saying most or the big majority of the 2,500 opening are unique and different from GAYP or 3-Move. They also showed their opponents where they went wrong and some end-game plays from various games.

A grandmaster or master should step up and help out here, but from my little experience and crossboard ability I think the more you play and study checkers you develop your crossboard aptitude. It is a learned skill, so naturally there are some checker players this skill comes easier to than others.

I do know there have been a few times that I won or drew against a Master that actually surprised me since I know I could never or most likely could not do this in GAYP or 3-Move against this opponent. Then again, I played Alan Millhone, Teal Stanly, and Joe McClellan as if I had never played checkers. Those openings were unfamiliar and obviously, I didn't or couldn't figure out an offense or defense, losing both sides. Checkers is fun no matter what results or variation! It’s like golf, it doesn’t take but one good sweet solid shot to keep you playing.

[Eric Strange]

I keep hearing about 11-man ballot bu I really don't know anything about it. Can someone give me examples of how it works? Is there an opening deck? How many openings? Once day when I ave my full play applet I may include gayp, 3-move, and 11 man ballot so I would like to know anything I can about this style of play

[Alex_Moiseyev]

In order to become a master specifically in the 11-man ballot game, what, if anything, should a beginner study in addition to practicing a lot against strong players? (Assume the beginner has no interest in any other style of play.)

If you are at beginner level do the following:

1) STEP1. Play online in Internet 12-18 months, no books, any time and style.

2) STEP2. Study problems books 6-12 months. Continue to play online but stop playing 1 minute games and be more cautious choosing an opponent.

3) STEP3. For strategy learning study "The Tinsley Way" - the best Anglo-American Checkers strategy book all time. Don't try to memorize any specific lines, just play games and see how it goes.

Keep playing online but only with good players and 2-3 minutes at least. Try to minimize number of blunders and horrible stupid errors.

Starting STEP2 attend as much state/national real events as possile.

=========================================================================
The transpostion from 11 man ballot to 3 moves opening which JR mentioned, happened in one of Tim's games and when I observe this on the board - I noted players after the game.

11 man ballot opening: OFF 15, 23. Moves 12-16 24-20 16-19

3-moves opening: 10-15 24-20 15-19 23x16 12x19 - the same position (see diagram) !



To be honest - such kind of transposition doesn't happen very often, obviously less than 5%, because tempo change is involve.

Regards,

Alex

[B Salot]

Thank you, Alex. I'll try your 3 steps after I retire, which is eventually.

I expected your thumbs up on practice and studying problems, and your thumbs down on studying transpositions.

But I didn't expect the recommendation to review Tinsley's 3- move games. That probably is an effective way to get acquainted with a variety of formations, even though so few will arise in 11-man ballot games.

It is too bad 11-man ballot never became really popular, even though it was invented more than 100 years ago.

Bill Salot

[Danny_Alvarez]

It is too bad 11-man ballot never became really popular, even though it was invented more than 100 years ago.

I agree totally Mr Salot
but then again i havent been able to play 11 man against anybody yet... except myself.
cheers
Danny

[Alex_Moiseyev]

Tonight I sent to Dr. John Reade couple of my annotated games with Tim Laverty for publication in the next (?) issue of EDA journal. Enjoy.

Regards,

Mr. Alex