Final Results of 2007 GAYP Nationals

[Alex_Moiseyev]

2 times he was playing out the losing side of 4 on 3 kings and he drew one and won the other!

Names of heroes to studio !!!

I truly believe this same tournament played again could have very different results

Life is short and hopefully we'll have a chance to see if this Lubabalo terrific success was just a result of "winner luck" or step forward to crown.

There is only one way to prove pudding ... well good part of this pudding was already proved, another one is awaiting !

I applaud to new USA GAYP Champion and wish him to resolve conflict with his National SA Federation in the very nearest future.

Sincerely,

Alex Moiseyev
3-move checkers World Champ

[Gene Lindsay]

Alex, I have noticed you keep referring to Kondlo as the 2007 U.S.A. National Champion. Even though he is the winner of the 2007 U.S. National GAYP Open Ty, John Webster is the 2007 U. S. GAYP National Champion( as the highest finishing U.S. resident)

Gene Lindsay

[Alex_Moiseyev]

John Webster is the 2007 U. S. GAYP National Champion( as the highest finishing U.S. resident)

Gene, I never heard about such title and always thought that Ron King in the past (today Lubabalo) was a Champion when he won Nationals. This tournament had a status of National tournament where everyone can play - so winner is a Champion.

Only in 2004 when we had back-to-back tournaments, one (GAYP) was "Open" and other (3-move) - National. Not this year.

In my eyes and based on my knoweldges - Lubabalo is officially a USA GAYP Champion.

In other hands, follow ACF BY-LAWS, as foreign citizen he cannot be endorse by ACF to play in QT ... but this is another story

Alex

[Gene Lindsay]

Alex,
Someone from another country can't be US Champion, just like you can't be the Tennessee State Champion if you do not live in Tennessee. Kondlo is the 2007 US GAYP Open Champion, but as I said Webster is the US Champion as highest finishing resident. Just like in Tennesse this year you were the Tennesse Open Champion but John Estes was the Tennesse Champion as the highest finishing Tennessee resident. Back when the ACF used to award certificates to tournament winners they awarded a certificate to the Tournament winner as the Open Champion and a certificate to the highest finishing resident as U.S. National Champion, Tennessee State Champion, or whatever.



Gene

[Alex_Moiseyev]

Alex,
Someone from another country can't be US Champion, just like you can't be the Tennessee State Champion if you do not live in Tennessee.

Ha ... it's only matter of rules and how things are set. It is true that I cannot be a TN Champion, but in some other States I can, because they just set things in this way.

In 2001 GAYP National I was 2nd by HP after Ron King, and I remember -i asked Les Balderson specifically this question And he told me what I wrote - winner of USA National is also a Champion.

However, it is possible that I, or even Les missed something. Here are links (see below) to the text of ACF Constitution and By-LAWS. Can you show me where it says something about status of "winner-Champion" titles and it's relations to citizenship.

http://usacheckers.com/acfbylaws.php

http://usacheckers.com/acfconstitution.php

By the way

There is nothing written in these documents about WCDF, and this text clearly says that Lubabalo is an "official Challenger" for the World Title and can call Ron King. ACF is a World title holder. Ha-Ha

He doesn't need to go to Las Vegas in September ! if someone tells me that I am wrong - he goes against ACF Constitution and BY-LAWS.

[Gene Lindsay]

Alex,
When I lived in Texas I won the TN Open Ty and even though I owned a home in TN they said I could not be TN State Champion. I do not know of any state that will let you be State Champion if you do not live in that state. I have not searched through the ACF By-Laws for this, but in the late 80's (before I was ACF Treasurer) I was the ACF National Organizer and I was the one who made out the certificates to the tournament winners and mailed them out, and this was the way I was told by the ACF Executive Committee to do it and as far as I know it is the way it has always been. If you won the Barbados Open, I guarantee they would not award you the title of Barbados National Champion. You would just be the winner of the Barbados Open. Maybe Les didn't understand what you were asking as he was the one who gave me these instructions from the ACF Executive Committee.

Gene

[Alex_Moiseyev]

Gene, I have to do more research on this ... You might be right about past, but many things have been changed recently Probably awarding titles and interpretation laws is an Exec Committee privelegy if it's not clearly written in Constitution and BY-LAWS. So - what you said was true at the end of 80's, but today maybe not.

I think Alan / Richard and/or other Exec members can clarify this for us. In documents I didn't find anything on this matter ... either way.

There were so many State tournaments I won ... and I remember at least on one occasion they awarded me with State Champion title, but I don't remember State and year.

[Gene Lindsay]

Alex,
The North Carolina website agrees with me, out from John's name(under comments) it says USA National Champion.

Gene

[jimloy]

Are we rewriting the history books? Old ACFB's list D. Oldbury, R. King, and Chinook as U.S. National Champs.

1976 - If D. Oldbury was not the real U.S. Champ, then K. Albrecht and E. Bruch tied as the 1976 U.S. Champs.

1992 - If R. King was not the real U.S. Champ, then Elbert Lowder was the 1992 U.S. Champ.

1996 - If Chinook was not the real U.S. Champ, then R. Hallett (3rd place) was the 1996 U.S. Champ (R. King being perhaps ineligible).

[liam stephens]

I think Gene has a valid point, and this situation is common in other sports also.
For example, in Golf, Tiger Woods won the British Open Golf Championship in 2000, 2005 and 2006, so he was the Open Champion in those years, but he would not have been regarded as the British or UK National Champion.

The confusion is one of terminology; the biennial US Open 3 Move Tournaments were historically referred to as the " US Nationals"and that is probably why Oldbury and King were referred to as such.

[tommyc]

Hi Liam,...........Were back on the "old sod" thanks for everything....Tommy

[liam stephens]

Hi Tommy,

Congratulations, great personal results for you and Shane and also for Irish Draughts.

[Alex_Moiseyev]

I am OK and can live with this outcome

Alex Moiseyev
3-move National Champion 2006
(2nd after Ron King)

[Gene Lindsay]

Jim,
I would like to see one of those old Bulletins that refer to Oldbury and King as U.S. National Champions. I think they probably say they were the winners of the U.S. National Tournament, which is an open tournament. I seriously doubt if you can find an old Bulletin that said either was the U.S. National Champion.


Gene

[Alex_Moiseyev]

Jim,
I would like to see one of those old Bulletins that refer to Oldbury and King as U.S. National Champions.

Fron USA National 1996 ... ACFB 265, Page 1. This is not exactly Bulletin, but annotated pages, which were sold separately. It says:

Overall winner - Chinook
U.S. Open Champion - Ron King

Hallett was 3rd, but it doesn't say that he was a USA National Champion.

Kind os mess ...

Alex