Politics Anyone?

[Dennis Cayton]

Greetings:

I have decided to create one more thread for some off-topic discussion.

I suspect that there are at least a few Checker players out there who have some very passionate and powerful convictions and views about what is going on in the world of politics today.

I know I do.

If you have something to get off your chest, please feel free to do so here.

Whether your politics are to the right of Rush Limbaugh or to the left of Barack Obama, please feel free to express yourself here.

Please refrain from personal attacks while doing so.

Attack the message instead of the messenger.

Discuss the issues with civility and mutual respect.

Let the discussions begin.

Best Wishes,

Dennis Cayton

[Dennis Cayton]

Wait, it's possible to be to the left of Barack Obama?

Greetings John Acker:

Apparently, it is possible.

Almost every day, I read of at least one comment from an Obama supporter who complains that he is not being liberal enough.

With that being said, I will go ahead and be the first to reveal a little bit about my own politics.

Without going into a whole lot of specifics, my politics can be described as slightly to the right of Rush Limbaugh, and approaching Michael Savage territory.

Next?

Best Wishes,

Dennis Cayton

[MostFamousDane]

Wait, it's possible to be to the left of Barack Obama?

Greetings John Acker:

Apparently, it is possible.

Almost every day, I read of at least one comment from an Obama supporter who complains that he is not being liberal enough.

With that being said, I will go ahead and be the first to reveal a little bit about my own politics.

Without going into a whole lot of specifics, my politics can be described as slightly to the right of Rush Limbaugh, and approaching Michael Savage territory.

Next?

Best Wishes,

Dennis Cayton

Well Obama would be slightly to the right in Danish politics well to the right in most countries that have REAL democracy

[MostFamousDane]

Sune: that would explain why Europe has not been a serious military or economic power for 60 years, and is fast being overrun by Muslim immigrants.

1. Europe is not a country.
2. In most european countries killing people is not something we want to be good at - maybe that is why Europe is not a millitary power.
3. Real democracies seldom go to war and in real democracies it is very difficult to gather support for the kind of millitary spending the US has.
4. It is different from country to country but in Denmark the right wing invited them to Denmark in the 60's because there was a lack of cheap labor.

[MostFamousDane]

I'm well aware that Europe is not a country: not all Americans are as stupid as your newscasters tell you. And how are you defining "real democracy"? Athenian? Socialist?

Well as you know the word democracy is from greek demos (people) and kratos (rule) - this is in constrast to aristocracy (rule by a few) or monarchy (rule by one).

Pure democracy in my book is all of the people votes on all issues - which of course is not pratical so pure democracy doesn't - in most European countries we have representative democracy which is where you elect some people to REPRESENT you views meaning to vote as you would have voted had you had the time to sit down and vote on all the issues.

Electing a dictator or a group of dicators is not democracy. You guys have two party system where people vote for a president or sentors based on for instance character and leadership qualities that is not democracy. So in reality you have a sort of mix of elected monarchy and elected a arisotcracy - it is not bad but not as good as real democracy. It is quite difficult to vote for someone to represent your views when there is only two parties where the members don't even have to vote the same way and where political corruption is legal. Actually your system is a lot closer to the system they have in China or in former Soviet Union the only difference is that they only have/had one party instead of two.

[MostFamousDane]

So you think that the multi-party system in the Danish Parliament is any more representative?

Yes because you have serveral different parties where the parties actually means something - you vote for a party and its program you can relatively easily predict what the members of the party are going to vote for. In the states e.g. the senators are free to vote whatever way they like on any issue - and strangely enough they tend to vote the way that they are payed to.

[MostFamousDane]

So you think that the multi-party system in the Danish Parliament is any more representative?

Yes because you have serveral different parties where the parties actually means something - you vote for a party and its program you can relatively easily predict what the members of the party are going to vote for. In the states e.g. the senators are free to vote whatever way they like on any issue - and strangely enough they tend to vote the way that they are payed to.

But that doesn't guarantee representation, because parties are forced into coalitions, and thus into negotiation on pretty much every issue. So even if you voted, say, for a party favoring stronger immigration laws, they may have to work with an open-borders party to get their agenda passed.

Oh ok I see your point

Well if a majority of the population feels strongly enough about an issue they would vote for a party that would further that issue. In reality most issues are not for or against but something more gradual.

Lets take the immigration issue and assume that there is only one issue that the voters care for. There is a scale from lets call it "the more the merrier" to "we must do everything to get everyone out". For each party you know how their stand on the immigration issue and lets say there is 5 parties - lets put it up in tabular form:

Party 1: "the more the merrier"
Party 2: "lets have a little more but not too many"
Party 3: "those who are here can stay but no more"
Party 4: "most of them most leave"
Party 5: "we must do everything to get everyone out"

Lets say that party 3 and 4 form goverment because they have 45% (and Party 5 has 6 %) then they will agree on something like "a few of them most leave but no more". So even if you vote for Party 5 "we must do everything to get everyone out" it is going in the right direction. That seems fair enough to me. Of course it becomes more complicated when there are many issues but in pratice peoples opion have a tendency to be coherent if they are not the system doesn't work so good. In switzerland if a big enough group of people wants a vote on a specific issue they get a vote on the specific issue. That is obviously even better.

Anyway lets contrast this to American politics where you in many cases elect someone who you like because when there is only two parties you can't really have many definate opinons on anything because that will drive some voters away . The senate member that is elected will vote not strictly based on a program layed out by a party but based on whatever he/she likes so you might and it can be difficult to predict how the specific person will vote. If you want option "we must do everything to get everyone out" there is nobody you can vote for that actually have a chance to be elected. It has actually happended two times in recent times that people voted for somebody who didn't stand a chance and then the opposite side won (Al Gore lost because some people voted for Ralph Nader wanting an even more green politic, and more or less the same happned with Ross Perot).

So in conclusion I'm sorry but your system sucks .

[Patrick Parker]

John I just realized.....your my new friend

[Patrick Parker]

any society that gives up freedoms for the sake of protection ....well give me liberty

europe is not a country but what exactly is the eu...seems alot like our federal government and our states
oh no its not a complete government yet but give it time

spend those euros

[Patrick Parker]

sune do you think america is a democracy or should be?

because we werent founded that way and shouldnt be

[MostFamousDane]

sune do you think america is a democracy or should be?

because we werent founded that way and shouldnt be

Hmm that is an interesting question I guess you guys should decide for your self how you run your country .

[bugs]

HMMMMMMM.. How is this???? PLAIN English........We have gone to POT....and going to get worse.....lol

[Patrick Parker]

gone to pot and trying to legalize it....its like we want to become a western european country

[Patrick Parker]

i was talking to a friend from india ..he says the muslims grow pot there and sell it to tourists
not to mention the other drugs grown

[bugs]

lolol Come on Patrick... You know the pot I was talking about..... You sure don`t smoke it....don`t know a thing about the "pot" you are talking about.....