Does anyone know whether this list is complete: http://usacheckers.com/worldchampionshi ... s.php#gayp and if not - if a complete list exists ?
I was looking at some old games e.g. between J McKerrow and R Martins which are supposedly from 1858 was this a world match ?
World Championship Matches
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MostFamousDane
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liam stephens
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Re: World Championship Matches
Hi Sune,
Hope the following may be of interest:
MARTINS (LONDON) AND McKERROW (DOUGLAS, SCOTLAND)
For £100 and the Championship of England and Scotland.
Played at Glasgow, December 1858.
The match was the best of 30 games, and ended in a draw, McKerrow winning one, Martins one, and the remainder drawn.
In the second match between Messrs. R. Martins and J. McKerrow there were Sixteen Won Games - ten by Martins and six by McKerrow – thirty-six being drawn.
Source: Gould’s Historical and Memorable Matches.
Note that the lists you are looking at were compiled from an American perspective.
The splitting of the list into Freestyle and 2 Move sections is somewhat misleading as that was a gradual process taking place over a long period.
Remember, also, that in those days World Champions were recognised by public acclaim, rather than by the pronouncements of Official Bodies.
Regards - Liam.
Hope the following may be of interest:
MARTINS (LONDON) AND McKERROW (DOUGLAS, SCOTLAND)
For £100 and the Championship of England and Scotland.
Played at Glasgow, December 1858.
The match was the best of 30 games, and ended in a draw, McKerrow winning one, Martins one, and the remainder drawn.
In the second match between Messrs. R. Martins and J. McKerrow there were Sixteen Won Games - ten by Martins and six by McKerrow – thirty-six being drawn.
Source: Gould’s Historical and Memorable Matches.
Note that the lists you are looking at were compiled from an American perspective.
The splitting of the list into Freestyle and 2 Move sections is somewhat misleading as that was a gradual process taking place over a long period.
Remember, also, that in those days World Champions were recognised by public acclaim, rather than by the pronouncements of Official Bodies.
Regards - Liam.
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MostFamousDane
- Posts: 400
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- Location: Brondby, Denmark
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Ingo_Zachos
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- Location: Dortmund, Germany
- Contact:
Re: World Championship Matches
There was a Martins-Wyllie match in 1859 that Martins won and Wyllie played a few matches, for instance one against Boreham (Austalian Champion) that sometimes r credited as WC matches. But on the other hand he also lost matches against Clarence Freeman and Richard Jordan, which were clearly not matches with the WC at stake.
NOTE: The last Anderson-Wyllie match was also not for the WC, but for the Scottish title.
Only later it was labelled as "first WC match".
Another obscutity: Millard Hopper claimed the GAYP title in the 1930's and 1940's due to a match he claimed he won agianst Alfred Jordan, but it is doubtful whether this match was ever played.
However, when the ACF backed Tom Wiswells challenge to Hopper in 1951, Hopper was given the status as reigning champion, though he later never appeared on any title holder list later on...
Some also claim that the first Pomeroy-Alfred Jordan match and the second Wiswell-Hopper match were fixed, but that r allegations and rumours.
Not also that Wiswell never played against Oldbury, Tinsley, Lowder, Lafferty, just to mention a few that could have beaten him. He just "defendend" against Hopper and Fraser.
Hopper never was a master player, usually going out in most tourneys he played in early rounds, and Fraser, though a master player, was not the hardest challenge for Wiswell.
In contrast, I believe Pomeroy was a world-class player. He was selected for the First International, but refused to play, as he disliked the 2-move retriction. He was regarded as equal to Barker, Heffner and Freeman, and to be much better then Reynolds, Denvir, Horr, Grover, Dearborn, Hill , Head and Dr. Schaeffer.
Gould's matches is a good reference for the early years, especially among Englich and Schottish players.
Greetings from sunny Dortmund,
Ingo Zachos
Greetinx from
NOTE: The last Anderson-Wyllie match was also not for the WC, but for the Scottish title.
Only later it was labelled as "first WC match".
Another obscutity: Millard Hopper claimed the GAYP title in the 1930's and 1940's due to a match he claimed he won agianst Alfred Jordan, but it is doubtful whether this match was ever played.
However, when the ACF backed Tom Wiswells challenge to Hopper in 1951, Hopper was given the status as reigning champion, though he later never appeared on any title holder list later on...
Some also claim that the first Pomeroy-Alfred Jordan match and the second Wiswell-Hopper match were fixed, but that r allegations and rumours.
Not also that Wiswell never played against Oldbury, Tinsley, Lowder, Lafferty, just to mention a few that could have beaten him. He just "defendend" against Hopper and Fraser.
Hopper never was a master player, usually going out in most tourneys he played in early rounds, and Fraser, though a master player, was not the hardest challenge for Wiswell.
In contrast, I believe Pomeroy was a world-class player. He was selected for the First International, but refused to play, as he disliked the 2-move retriction. He was regarded as equal to Barker, Heffner and Freeman, and to be much better then Reynolds, Denvir, Horr, Grover, Dearborn, Hill , Head and Dr. Schaeffer.
Gould's matches is a good reference for the early years, especially among Englich and Schottish players.
Greetings from sunny Dortmund,
Ingo Zachos
Greetinx from
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Re: World Championship Matches
1859 Martins beat Wyllie
1863 Martins - Wyllie, draw (all games were drawn)
That match was the infamous Martins' Rest match, in which the same game was repeated endlessly by both players. It apparently shot down GAYP until 1913. From 1864 to the two move match in 1894, all serious matches used named GAYP openings chosen at random or by the players from one book or another (like Anderson's book or Robertson's Guide), and the players playing both sides of such openings.
1864 Wyllie beat Martins, 10-5-52
...
1937 Samuel Levy beat Samuel Cohen 5-1-31 for the Two Move World Championship
1863 Martins - Wyllie, draw (all games were drawn)
That match was the infamous Martins' Rest match, in which the same game was repeated endlessly by both players. It apparently shot down GAYP until 1913. From 1864 to the two move match in 1894, all serious matches used named GAYP openings chosen at random or by the players from one book or another (like Anderson's book or Robertson's Guide), and the players playing both sides of such openings.
1864 Wyllie beat Martins, 10-5-52
...
1937 Samuel Levy beat Samuel Cohen 5-1-31 for the Two Move World Championship
Re: World Championship Matches
The OCA2 archive currently resides at http://www.fierz.ch/download.php
The two Martins - McKerrow matches (1858 and 1859) are in there.
The two Martins - McKerrow matches (1858 and 1859) are in there.
Re: World Championship Matches
I have a photocopy of the 1863 Martins - Wyllie match. The games are interesting until they started repeating games. Presumably the backers (and bettors) got cold feet (after many draws, mostly Glasgows) and ordered the players to draw the match. Then the players emphasized this travesty by playing quick repeated draws for several days to the end of the match. The Cleveland Public Library has the games in a small notebook in Martins' own handwriting. Most of the games seem to be in Lees' Guide, some with a different move order.
I have not seen any of the 1859 Martins - Wyllie games. They don't seem to be in Gould's Memorable Matches, and I can't find them in the Cleveland Public Library's card catalog or on the OCA2 archive. But an anonymous person tells me that they were published. I wish I could find a copy, as I need to type the games into my database.
I have not seen any of the 1859 Martins - Wyllie games. They don't seem to be in Gould's Memorable Matches, and I can't find them in the Cleveland Public Library's card catalog or on the OCA2 archive. But an anonymous person tells me that they were published. I wish I could find a copy, as I need to type the games into my database.