2008 A.C.F. 3- Move Nationals & Youth Ty.

[tommyc]

I mean people will still think you're a .....twit,and its obvious you have removeD all doubt?

And your still not getting the games........Joshua.....get over it.

[Alan Millhone]

Everyone please read my current posting under GENERAL DISCUSSION .

Sincerely:
Alan Millhone, President
American Checker Federation

[Ingo_Zachos]

Dear Josh,

you r right: the games r under no copyright (u r wrong that both players have copyright, the truth is there is no copyright on the games at all), and IF Alex or anyone else would publish his games, without any notes, the ACF could do nothing against it.

On the other hand, the ACF, if they provided the score sheets, owns this score sheets, and you have no right to have them handled to you.
But you may reproduce it on your own sheet during the game or by memory, and again, you have violated no law, and the ACF can do nothing against it.

Another thing is if the players agreed with the ACF not to publish the games.
They can do that,and as long as both the players and the ACF stick to that, I am afraid, there is no legal way to get the games, Josh.
But once they published them, anyone can reproduce them freely.
And that is a good thing.
Imagine, josh, just imagine, there would be a copyright.
You may not play a move another one has copyrighted without paying royalties!
Do you really want that ?
Following pp would be indeed expensive that way


So my advice: you have to swallow the bitter apple and to wait for the publication by the ACF.
There is no legal way to force the ACF or the players to give the games to you.
But once they did, you may reproduce that games whenever you want.
And if they want to profit from the initial publication of the games, I see no problems in that and I think it's a good idea, as long as the money gained is used for the benefit of Checkers and the ACF.


Another fine point you made is the art of bad annotation that is common in most checker publications.
But there r reasons behind it:
1. Time.
Try to annotate 150 games in a week or even in a month, and you will see that this takes time. And how do you save time ?
By doing "sparse" annotations!
2. Playing strenghts
If the annotator is no GM or IM, he/she will probaly be unable to understand many moves, and he/she will not see the tactical flaws.
How do you solsve this problem?
You can use KingsRow!
3. Annotator has not played the game
Many informations needed to understand a game or a move can only be given by the players.
Does the annotator know which candidate moves the player considered?
Does he/she know how good a player was prepared, and when did his/her preparation end?
Does he/she know about time-trouble, tournament conditions (noise, bad smell, flash lights, illness, private problems etc.) or tournament tactics (was it a "must win" situation or a draw was all he/she needed).

Alll this questions can only be answerd by the player himself.
All others at best can speculate about it.

4.Layout restrictions
if the ACF bulletin is only 24 pages, you cannot include full annotations on each game, so many games are not annotated or annotated sparsely.

Also I want to ask evrybody to calm down.
There is no need to use insultations or historical comparisons, as this is just about a few checker games.
And Josh is a great talent with the desire to improve, so he asks for the games to be published.
To be published soon.
To be published as cheap as possible.
What's wrong with that attitude?

Also the ACF needs funding, and the publication of the games can be used for that purpose, and as long as that money is spent for checkers and the price is reasonable, you r free to decide if that money is well spent on the games.
If not, you can wait until someone who got the games by paying for them, publishes them or gives them to you freely (unannotated of course!)
In that case, all you suffer is a delay.
That may costs you points in tournaments, but you r free to decide if that is worth the money.

What's wrong wrong with that deal?

What I don't understand is that some games r never published, like the Barbbados QT games in 2004 or the Stonehaven QT 2006 games.
but it might be that the organizers still work on the publication.
Might be that they want more then just sparse annotations.
Do you know that most of the best annotated tournament book in chess were published years after the event ?
Good annotoations take time.
A good game takes time, and indeed a game that is annotated well takes about 10-20 the time the game actually lasts.
So with 200 games, each lasting 1,5 hour, that makes 200*1,5*10 = 3000 hours, or 125 days without sleep, toilet, eating, drinking or sex.
Maybe, Josh u r just expecting a little bit to much too soon.

Greetinx from stormy Dortmund, Germany

Ingo Zachos

[Corey Modich]

Good day, everyone.

It was refreshing to see old faces as well as new ones at the tourney this year.

You always learn something new at a tournament. I watched a couple of Ron King's games and that really helped my game throughout the tournament.

It was my first time to Vegas, so the lights and pretty much everything else were quite overwhelming and spectacular.

One thing that might help attendance in the future is to try to educate more people about it or tell people on some gaming sites about it and then more curiosity could be raised about National Tys.

I am going to try to see if I can get a summer program going at a local YMCA for next year... So we will see how that goes.

I look forward to seeing all of you again.

[john reade]

Ingo,

You can get the Stonehaven games from Danny Oliphant.

Just send him an email at doliphant4@aol.com

John.

[tommyc]

I believe Jim Loy is working on the Stonehaven and the Barbados games at the moment amongst 20 other things hes doing for checkers and the ACF.He will produce them in a booklet in time.!!

[Ingo_Zachos]

...

[john reade]

Tommy, The job is done and available from Danny Oliphant. See above. John.

[Corey Modich]

Corey, are you still in MI or have you moved somewhere else for school?

I still am in Michigan. I just am on the western side of the state when I'm at college.

[Patrick Parker]

I like ingos post as well
good insight
I really cant disrespect anyones work from fortman to loy to anyone in between
however if someone does chew thru a game with a program it does save me some time
wasnt it loy that did the barbados games ? If not then whoever
but I was considering getting all the games together and making a handful of booklets since it had been a few
years and no one had done anything so I asked about it and found out it would soon be done
and I got a copy and I like it ...I couldnt have gone to barbados then and its my only insight into
how the players abilities down there compare with ours .....and it seems gayp they do compare well!

I can understand wanting more out of the notes
I can understand wanting more out of the acf

sometimes a lesson thats hard to understand is that working and those who are working
do their jobs until they take on more responsibility
alan has a job ...I dont know what it is but its his
richard has a job....and again the same
if you dont like the way something is done....improve it or find a way to
I understand if you are young its different and im not talking to anyone under 18 for sure
I like alexs position on youth just playing and not taking an active role ...so they might improve thats most important

joshs frustration is what most of us feel...we want the game to improve ...mostly financially...but we dont have a solution
alan has made progress....

however look how poker has changed ...has it really gotten better? yeah lots of money there but look at the people that show up

sometimes when you grow up in any kind of way if the roots get behind the limbs the tree falls over

im glad when I go to a tournament and see friendly people who love the game in a child like way and have no interest
in studying it and they want each game to be a new adventure ....they mostly play in the minors but I like watching
them have fun.

I like seeing sheriff show up hes nice and I like seeing gayle and mrs wilma
would those people still come if we had millions of dollars and lots of young punks showing up and acting like they
do on poker on tv?
I hope we get money one day and the game thrives but I want it through hard work and time and
when we put those shoes on they fit

[tommyc]

Well said Patrick.............a great post ,one of your finest cos you took in alota stuff in that post without rambling on like some....well done man.!!