TN Tourney News & Results Thread

[john reade]

Alex,

After 11-8 Colossus plays 14-18 23-14 16-23. What do you play next?

John.

[Alex_Moiseyev]

Hi, John !

21-17, 14x21, 15-11, 9-14, 11-8, 14-18, 23x14, 16x23, 26x19, 10x17, 29-25 ... your move

After 14-18 (instead proposed 6-9) Kingsrow sees an immediate draw after several seconds.

[john reade]

Alex,

After 29-25 Colossus only sees a draw! Maybe I should switch to Kingsrow!

The problem is that Colossus is now over 20 years old and crashes if left looking at a position too long. I can't make it look more than 15 moves deep in this position.

Colossus originally had White playing 26-22 after 9-14.

I look forward to seeing how the game actually went.

John.

[tommyc]

John..........Theres no need for 9-14 when 10-14 is a clear winner!! Yes.

[john reade]

Alex,

Colossus gives 6-9 after 11-8 as a Bkack win!

So let's forget about 14-18 and assume I played 6-9.

John.

P.S. 9-14 6-9 is equivalent to 10-14 6-10!

[Alex_Moiseyev]

Alex,

Colossus gives 6-9 after 11-8 as a Bkack win!

So let's forget about 14-18 and assume I played 6-9.

John.

P.S. 9-14 6-9 is equivalent to 10-14 6-10!

John, you may not need to trust Kingsrow, but you have to trust me Lets play it ...

21-17, 14x21, 15-11, 9-14, 11-8, 6-9, 8-4 ... your move

9-14 & 6-9 is not the same as 10-14 & 6-10, because after 10-14 11-8 black wins by 14-18, and after 10-14, 11-8, 6-10 or 9-14, 11-8, 6-9 - draw.

[john reade]

After 8-4 I play 14-18 23-14 9-18.

[Alex_Moiseyev]

After 8-4 I play 14-18 23-14 9-18.

21-17, 14x21, 15-11, 9-14, 11-8, 6-9, 8-4, 14-18, 23x14, 9x18, 4-8, 16x23, 26x19 ... your move.

It seems like Colossus stil doesn't see a draw ?

Personally, I won't blame program (Colossus) for two reasons.

1) You may need to upgrade your computer to avoid crashes - especially RAM.

2) Ending databse is crucial. I am using 10 pieces database which helps program alot with calculations.

Alex

[john reade]

I'll ask Martin Bryant. (Compiler of Colossus.)

Colossus's next move is 18-22. It still thinks it is a Black win. It crashed after looking 17 moves ahead.

[Patrick Parker]

john not sure which country ur from
but i could build you a powerful pc for 600 bucks
or tell you how to do it
2-4 gb ram
quad core
hard drive ....does it matter anymore these days?
and windows 7 that would run todays top program
and make 15 ply instantly
for example if i turn the book off with my current pc(at starting position)
1.1 sec its at 15ply....now plys value is debateable think about it

[Alex_Moiseyev]

21-17, 14x21, 15-11, 9-14, 11-8, 6-9, 8-4, 14-18, 23x14, 9x18, 4-8, 16x23, 26x19, 18-22, 32-28 ... your move

In order to speed things:

1) If you go now 5-9, I play 19-16, 12x19, 27-24, 3x12, 24x6.

2) If you go now 2-6, I play 27-24.

Alex

[john reade]

After 24-6 Colossus gives 9-13 6-1 12-16 1-5 7-10 5-9 16-19 31-27 2-7 9-6 10-15 6-2 7-10 2-7 10-14 7-11 15-18 11-15 19-23 27-24 23-26 30-23 18-27 to a Black win.

[Alex_Moiseyev]

After 24-6 Colossus gives 9-13 6-1 12-16 1-5 7-10 5-9 16-19 31-27 2-7 9-6 10-15 6-2 7-10 2-7 10-14 7-11 15-18 11-15 19-23 27-24 23-26 30-23 18-27 to a Black win.

John, there is alot of various draws, but I decided to stay on your line as far as I can.

9-13 6-1 12-16 1-5 7-10 5-9 16-19 31-27 2-7 9-6 10-15 6-2 7-10 2-7 10-14 7-10 (7-11? loses) ... your move

In order to make your and Colossus life easy I can tell you that eventually it goes into man down see-saw draw. Without 10 pieces ending database Colossus maynot see an exact draw for long time.

[Mac Banks]

Hello John,

I am sure Alex will tell you this but after your 1216 then the best move for white is 2824
instead of 1-5 and this will draw easily for white: continue: after 1216 2824 7-11 1-5
1620 2419 2024 5-9 2428 9-14 1317 1418 2832 1825 2-7 3126 7-10 2522 1115 2213
1524 2925 1015 Drawn

All the best,
Mac Banks

[Alex_Moiseyev]

Yes, you absolutely right Mac, and 28-24 indeed is an easy draw. But I wanted to stay on John line as far as it's possible. It is an interesting thing to test program possibilities and limitatons.