Women and Youth.

[bugs]

I agree with you Billy Boy..........Internet checkers are for cheaters...Everybody knows that. Unless you are one of the "normal" players and friends who play in Kurnik

[Irma Sierra]

No money prize...the prize is WE PAY ALL YOUR EXPENSES TO THE NATIONALS!....as I said, only a real player would dare to go!

[ae_ted]

you may be right about Internet cheating. It certainly is as far as any current site. BUT are you also saying that Internet poker for real money is also won and ruled by cheaters???? If Poker for money can get by the cheating, then what I am saying is that surely there must be some way for checkers to do the same. interesting points.

[ae_ted]

Thanks. Many good ideas.A possible way to get ACF in from of more people is to have a ACF website to play on....
Many ideas are out there but for sure if ACf is going to grow, It has got to move somehow into the future that is here now.

[Pedro Saavedra]

Thanks. Many good ideas.A possible way to get ACF in from of more people is to have a ACF website to play on....
Many ideas are out there but for sure if ACf is going to grow, It has got to move somehow into the future that is here now.

Gold Token is the official ACF game server, and it has an ACF Club. I think ACF should work with the club to run some official tournaments, turn-based (my preference) or head-to-head. We can explore such details as the feasibility of holding a club tournament only for ACF members (or one open to all, but with an ACF recognized title to the top player who was at least an associate member at the beginning of the tournament.

There are all sorts of possibilities, but I would say, let us use our relationship to GT for this purpose.

[BillyBoy]

Hi Pedro, I dont think you read my post this topic cant be negotiated its something ACF cant do. You have way to many people that cheat online no matter what website. It will be totall chaos to have Acf result in online tournaments. Example Alex will no longer win a tournament your top masters will be pushed to the side. Your cheaters online will win all the tournaments take the highest ratings knock everyone else down. And as far as a referee watching people so they wont cheat online how is that possible? If people want Acf to hold online tournaments then money should not be involved or ratings. Billy

[Irma Sierra]

I dont know how http://www.flyordie.com does it, but there are some players that have a sign by his name saying: THIS PLAYER MUST BE USING A PROGRAM....maybe it analizes the games?, in Gold Token, if you think somebody is using a program, you tell Gold Token Support and they analize the game, of course there are big cheaters there as there are in all the sites, but as you say, if rating and money is not involved it can be a way to organize the tournament "FOR YOUTH TO WIN THE PRIZE OF GOING TO A TOURNAMENT" not for OLD masters that anyway they go and they can afford expenses....

[Pedro Saavedra]

Hi Pedro, I dont think you read my post this topic cant be negotiated its something ACF cant do. You have way to many people that cheat online no matter what website. It will be totall chaos to have Acf result in online tournaments. Example Alex will no longer win a tournament your top masters will be pushed to the side. Your cheaters online will win all the tournaments take the highest ratings knock everyone else down. And as far as a referee watching people so they wont cheat online how is that possible? If people want Acf to hold online tournaments then money should not be involved or ratings. Billy

I played in GT, IYT and Wyllie for a while. Many are players of a complete integrity. ACF has sponsored correspondence tournaments, and the legendary names of Richard Fortman, Mac Banks and many others prospered in that mode of play. And do not say that there were no computers in the old days, because one could always get friends to help in analysis, and that was still against the rules.

As for me, I prefer turn-based play to crossboard. I like to consult books and try to improve them as I lay, and to take my time. Alex is merely the best crossboard player in the world. Checkers has different modes of play, and crossboard is just one. We still have ladders that have noved to e-mail, and ACF endorses a turn-based method.

If ACF does not get into turn-based it should change its name to the American Crossboard Checkers Association, because checkers is more than just crossboard play and always has been.

[Pedro Saavedra]

I dont know how http://www.flyordie.com does it, but there are some players that have a sign by his name saying: THIS PLAYER MUST BE USING A PROGRAM....maybe it analizes the games?, in Gold Token, if you think somebody is using a program, you tell Gold Token Support and they analize the game, of course there are big cheaters there as there are in all the sites, but as you say, if rating and money is not involved it can be a way to organize the tournament "FOR YOUTH TO WIN THE PRIZE OF GOING TO A TOURNAMENT" not for OLD masters that anyway they go and they can afford expenses....

My point is that we also need on-line play for people who prefer it to crossboard, for players whose back is allergic to sitting, who like to consult boioks as they play. We have always had correspondence play, and in chess there are many correspondence associations (and USCF sponsors e-mail play as it once did mail play). I know some legendary chess players who seldom played in a live tournament -- they preferred spending hours, moving pieces around and taking notes. One so was Rick Callaghan, who later took up checkers, but was an International Master at correspondence chess.

Whoever does not like turn=based or correspondence play need not play. All current titles should be as they are. But there have always been World Correspondence Championships, and the Internet offers the chance to have many tournaments and matches in that mode.

[BillyBoy]

Pedro, There is already online tournaments you can compete in. Im not saying there is anything bad about online playing. All im saying is you can not put money and ratings into online play. If im facing you I know your not looking through a book for moves or using a checkers program. But if im playing you online I have no reall idea. I dont want to sound like a broken record by repeating but I cant seem to get it through why my judgement is negative on the idea. And besides that it losses public interest. People that are interested in the ACF is not interested cause of the bulletins they want to travel and compete in a tournament. That is suppose to be the next level we are jumping backwards if we did online tournaments. But ask some of your state champions if they want to defend online. If your concerned about saving the ACF do as some members are doing already and going out promoting and advertising I wont hold your breathe waiting for the change. I to like to play online but its just a tool to try to help me for a tournament. If the world was straight it will be a great idea cause to be honest i play stronger looking at things on a monitor then a actuall board some reason. That is what I think about the issue. Billy

[Pedro Saavedra]

Pedro, There is already online tournaments you can compete in. Im not saying there is anything bad about online playing. All im saying is you can not put money and ratings into online play. If im facing you I know your not looking through a book for moves or using a checkers program. But if im playing you online I have no reall idea. I dont want to sound like a broken record by repeating but I cant seem to get it through why my judgement is negative on the idea. And besides that it losses public interest. People that are interested in the ACF is not interested cause of the bulletins they want to travel and compete in a tournament. That is suppose to be the next level we are jumping backwards if we did online tournaments. But ask some of your state champions if they want to defend online. If your concerned about saving the ACF do as some members are doing already and going out promoting and advertising I wont hold your breathe waiting for the change. I to like to play online but its just a tool to try to help me for a tournament. If the world was straight it will be a great idea cause to be honest i play stronger looking at things on a monitor then a actuall board some reason. That is what I think about the issue. Billy

First of all, I do use books in turn-based tournaments. That is part of the fun of it. I was once playing Jim Loy when we both discovered an error in Basic Checkers. He was waiting for me to fall for it and I did not. We often would discuss lines. I once played Lindus a cook his father had played. I should have known he would have discovered a refutation long ago.

Second, I am a member of ACF and am not interested in travelling or playing in crossboard tournaments. I want to still see state crossboard championships and champions. But we still should have the equivalent of correspondence chess. The names of Mac Banks and Richard Fortman are among those I cherish.

Perhaps because I have often been isolated from checkers, I prefer looking up openings and conducting analysis than playing crossboard or live on-line where I must rely on memory. It is a different set of skills, but the name of the game is still checkers. My objection is that you do not consider it checkers and thus do not think the ACF should be involved. But for many years it was involved in correspondence checkers. E-mail and turn-based checkers are the natural heirs of snail-mail checkers.

[BillyBoy]

Pedro, I did not say online playing is not checkers it is checkers. You mention that you love to use books while you play that is part of the fun? Well alot of opponents would consider it cheating and that proves my point. And if you have no interest in traveling to a tournament then more power to you but some people love to compete in tournaments I dont see the problem?? Billy

[Bernard Coll]

Looks like Billyboy knows nothing about postal checkers/draughts. Referring to books as Pedro does and I always did when I played postal was perfectly acceptable. (And still is)! The concept of postal draughts when played by snailmail was hopefully to glean new information from dubious and once barred openings. These players used their own minds to diversify from known published play. Where does cheating come into this Billyboy? I can assure you that when I played this honourable version of draughts that computers were still a wealthy person's dream; and checker programmes were an unheard of concept. PS. Why is it that Americans are so paranoid about CHEATING? Maybe it is in their genes?

[Pedro Saavedra]

Pedro, I did not say online playing is not checkers it is checkers. You mention that you love to use books while you play that is part of the fun? Well alot of opponents would consider it cheating and that proves my point. And if you have no interest in traveling to a tournament then more power to you but some people love to compete in tournaments I dont see the problem?? Billy

Bernard addressed the book issue. But you do not seem to get my point. I am not suggesting that any of the existing tournaments or titles be awarded based on online play. But for many years there were additional titles and tournaments, inclusding a World Mail Play Championshio, a US Mail Play Championship and Inter-District tournaments that were played by mail.

By analogy, the Maryland Chess Association has five titles open to all players. One is the State Championship. Three involve crossboard timed games (Action= Game in 30 minutes, Quick=Game in 15 minutes, Blitz=Game in 5 minutes) and finally it has a mail play champion. Everybody knows the state correspondence champion would lose crossboard against the state champion, and the state champion may or may not hold his own in the blitz tournament. But they are different recognized titles.

All I am saying is that the ACF should recognize different modes of play. Indeed, I am not a good blitz player, but but I favor recognizing blitz play (with clocks and game time being five to ten minutes) because one can hold a state event in one evening and have the event for players who can arrive at a tournament a day early.

You like crossboard tournaments with no access to books. I like mail play or turn-based tournaments with access to books permitted. Why not have ACF recognize both? And no, I do not suggest that there be one rating system that covers both. But at one time the ACF Bulletin covered mail play tournaments and matches. I am just claimingthat turn-based play is the legitimate successor of mail play.

[tommyc]

Billyboy is just saying there are ALTERNATIVES to what is already availble on the ACF corriculim.........good point Billyboy.