Weak Position with a Strong Move for Checkers

[nickaddante]

as

[tommyc]

Tell Mac Banks that.

[nickaddante]

I was attacked by Bernard Coll for no reason. If you read this whole thread, prior to what he said, I said nothing bad about anyone. He, along with other people in this thread, have attacked 1/0 players while Eric and I have graciously defended our position. Unfortunately, everyone has their breaking point and I was unnerved by what Bernard said. I would like to apologize to Tommy and John for my statements. "Tommy John" lol.

[tommyc]

Manson Teetzle, one of the premiere promoters and publishers of his era, absolutely abhored 11-Man Ballot.............

id agree with all you said JH.............in fact i withdrew from a world qualifier Mail Ty because of that very thing...11 ballot........when 11 man ballot was to be the "tie breaker"..........i withdrew as i saw no place for it in mail play,..........i proposed the tie be broken with a Barred Opening instead that dint happen .

PS.......And just to put you right Nick the Mail play i was involved in playing was the Openings that were Barred for many years ,THERE WAS NO PROGRAMS YET WRITTEN FOR THEM........ There are written NOW only because WE (mail players) provided the play on them over about 10 yrs or so.??Thats why they are included in the ballot now ,and just like BAD openings many yrs before that other mail players like Fortman had done the same thing:with openings like the then barred Skull Cracker etc and many more.

[Alex_Moiseyev]

I support fast games and online play, because this greatly helped me to learn game in the beginning (back to 1997) and improve and I came through all steps. In the first 2 years 1997-1999 I played a tons of games (mostly GAYP) on Internet with such experts as Don Lafferty, Leo Levitt, Carl Reno, Wayne Gober, Albert Tucker and many other, and in my very first cross aboard GAYP National 1999 in Niagara Falls I won Master Division !

Hence, many things came and gone since then. I am still playing occasionly in Internet fast games, 3/2 as part of my preparation for important events. And it still helps me to be well armed, up to day and make my play a bit more fresh.

Best online players today: Jolt, Fredo, Ray are completely qualify for Master Division after they play prior 1-2 times in some States ty's just become familiar with process.

I don't play (almost) 1/0 and I am not a big expert in this style, but I don't have any intention to blame it. In my eyes it has a limited influence on performance, but is alot of fun and enjoyment. Even under such pressure good players still can see things "without thinking".

For those who doesn't understand importancy of fast games I can say and confirm:

in real cross aboard games 90% times the very first move which comes to your mind and your head is making on the board !!! This simply means that - whoever does well in fast games, could be converted into very good cross aboard player ... if study publish play and have more real practice.

Without last two things nothing can help you to improve. You can't improve overall if you ignore completely one or another component.

Nick, Good luck in your journey tomorrow. Show them money !!!!!!!!!!

Alex

[Bernard Coll]

Thank you for your intelligent response Nick and also highlighting the very point I was making!! What a charming little boy you are.

[Jason Solan]

Unbelievable. I shouldn't really be surprised, yet I always am. We had a topic that was constructive, informative, with a lot of good ideas floating around, and very little bickering.
Then in a span of less than 48 hours the whole thing goes to hell in a handbasket.

This topic has become a source of amusement to me. What exactly is it about? To me it is about a bunch of no hope for teenagers looking for self gratification. You all know the ones I mean. Whiz kids with their latest gizmo game. ATTENTION SPAN??????????? ZERO. Too much American Telly? YES! These laddies aspire to be great checker players! GOOD! Nothing wrong with that. I believe one is suing Gillette because he actually cut himself whilst playing his zapper game when he was still learning to shave!
But to get to the point, these kiddies want to be recognised. They aspire to be known in the checkerworld, BUT there is a small problem;! There are too many hardened master/grandmaster players in front of them who learned the game the HARD way, through long arduous hours of book study and hard X-board experience. So they propose an Online tournament, "FASTEST GUN WINS" Wild West style." Ah Yes I won a MICKEY MOUSE checker tournament on the internet solely because I had a quicker mouse." CONGRATULATIONS Sonny! You really deserve that!
The noble game of draughts/checkers was never designed to be in this category. It was designed for intellectual minds not predisposed to their next zapping session! The genuine checker player does homework, arranges with his employer if he can take a particular week from his work on vacation. He/she then digs deep into their pocket for travel and accommodation costs, not to mention their entry fee. In total this can be a substantial amount of money to any individual. These are the players who have kept this game going knowing full well that most could only hope to win a minor prize.
Time to grow up young fellas because checkers is really a man's game! Sorry ladies, you are not the target.

WHY? What would possess you to come into this topic and make this post? This does nothing to further discussion and is only written to evoke a response, which you got. Nick responded in an uncalled for manner (which he's since removed), are you happy Bernard?
Unfathomable. Making this post here is like going onto a forum about pets, going into a thread about dogs and saying "I don't know why anyone likes dogs, everyone knows cats are the better animal."
Some players don't like GAYP, others are against mail play or online play. Fine. Don't participate in those forms of the game.

I've been a part of an online checkers community in some form or another since the late 1990's. The online community is not satisfied if there isn't something to argue over. I don't think there's every been a solid month without at least 1 argument. And it's usually not a rational argument. Even if it may start that way, it will quickly diverge into name denegration and name calling.

Here again we have a young player who is excited about the game, has proven he's willing to make the jump to play in real tournaments, proven he has skill by winning the Minors at the national tournament, and rather than work with him to help bring other new blood to real tournaments he gets attacked. I'm not saying Nick is entirely innocent here either. His (or his ghost writers) post immediately following Bernards should not have been typed up either. It was the wrong way to respond and provided the fuel to ignite the spark of dissent.

If you want to know why checkers is dying, you need to look no further than this thread. Some people try to have a rational discussion, people with differing opinions disagree, name calling insues, one party gets hurt/annoyed/frustrated and leaves, discussion ends.

Let's at least not end the discussion on a sour note. I think Eric/Jay/Others have had some very good ideas in here. Let's not let them die.

[waynegober]

Sad how sometimes we get emotional and fuss. Happens in all families from time to time I guess.
I have been involved in time past but am trying to mend my ways and not respond in anger anymore.
I really love checkers and like every checker player I have ever met (in person)..... lol

Well, back to the important subject of this thread. Speed checkers and the excellent players that like it.
( I like to watch em and would more but the trash talk is a little to rich for me. Some of my young friends try to calm it down for when I am in a room and to them a big Thanks) I can't play this style its too fast for my mouse , hehe. Well, here is what I think might be a neat solution for all involved. Just myu 2 cents worth.

If I promote the next GAYP National and I am seriously considering a bid, I would like to have Alex exhibition the day prior to the start of the tournament. I would also like to work in a 1/0 tournament in the evenings, so the young guns could play the regular tournament as well. We would set up several laptops in a room and connect them to Kurnick. Each player would have someone sit with him at his screen and make sure all is fair. Then you fellows can play it out and the ACF can Crown The Champ of !/0 and present them a trophy and recognition....
Details can be modified if needed.

Wayne

[waynegober]

I forgot someting....

I would try and get a first prize of at least $500.00 for the young gun shoot out. Hopefully, that would be enough for the first shoot out and you young fellows would come to the tournament for that amount. Here is the catch....
In an Old West shoot out here in Oklahoma, only one can be left standing so....... WINNER TAKES ALL.... no seconce place money or recognition hehe

Any of you older players put up some money for the OLD WEST YOUNG GUN tournament?

Wayne

[waynegober]

I dont mean to get out of order here... The ACF presenting a tile is of course not up the me but the Exec.

However, nothing would prevent us from having that tournament and even a larger prize if possible.

Young guns might get OLD GUN competition if the money is right, lol .

This thing is also gonna cost a little more to enter if I run it.... at least $50.00 entry (Entry fee to be added to the 500) . Now don't start saying you dont have that much ect. You can start saving now for the BIG SHOOT OUT.

Here is a chance to prove the pudding as Alex would say.....Come show the world you are real and 1/0 is real

wayne

[Bernard Coll]

Unbelievable. I shouldn't really be surprised, yet I always am. We had a topic that was constructive, informative, with a lot of good ideas floating around, and very little bickering.
Then in a span of less than 48 hours the whole thing goes to hell in a handbasket.

This topic has become a source of amusement to me. What exactly is it about? To me it is about a bunch of no hope for teenagers looking for self gratification. You all know the ones I mean. Whiz kids with their latest gizmo game. ATTENTION SPAN??????????? ZERO. Too much American Telly? YES! These laddies aspire to be great checker players! GOOD! Nothing wrong with that. I believe one is suing Gillette because he actually cut himself whilst playing his zapper game when he was still learning to shave!
But to get to the point, these kiddies want to be recognised. They aspire to be known in the checkerworld, BUT there is a small problem;! There are too many hardened master/grandmaster players in front of them who learned the game the HARD way, through long arduous hours of book study and hard X-board experience. So they propose an Online tournament, "FASTEST GUN WINS" Wild West style." Ah Yes I won a MICKEY MOUSE checker tournament on the internet solely because I had a quicker mouse." CONGRATULATIONS Sonny! You really deserve that!
The noble game of draughts/checkers was never designed to be in this category. It was designed for intellectual minds not predisposed to their next zapping session! The genuine checker player does homework, arranges with his employer if he can take a particular week from his work on vacation. He/she then digs deep into their pocket for travel and accommodation costs, not to mention their entry fee. In total this can be a substantial amount of money to any individual. These are the players who have kept this game going knowing full well that most could only hope to win a minor prize.
Time to grow up young fellas because checkers is really a man's game! Sorry ladies, you are not the target.

WHY? What would possess you to come into this topic and make this post? This does nothing to further discussion and is only written to evoke a response, which you got. Nick responded in an uncalled for manner (which he's since removed), are you happy Bernard?
Unfathomable. Making this post here is like going onto a forum about pets, going into a thread about dogs and saying "I don't know why anyone likes dogs, everyone knows cats are the better animal."
Some players don't like GAYP, others are against mail play or online play. Fine. Don't participate in those forms of the game.

I've been a part of an online checkers community in some form or another since the late 1990's. The online community is not satisfied if there isn't something to argue over. I don't think there's every been a solid month without at least 1 argument. And it's usually not a rational argument. Even if it may start that way, it will quickly diverge into name denegration and name calling.

Here again we have a young player who is excited about the game, has proven he's willing to make the jump to play in real tournaments, proven he has skill by winning the Minors at the national tournament, and rather than work with him to help bring other new blood to real tournaments he gets attacked. I'm not saying Nick is entirely innocent here either. His (or his ghost writers) post immediately following Bernards should not have been typed up either. It was the wrong way to respond and provided the fuel to ignite the spark of dissent.

If you want to know why checkers is dying, you need to look no further than this thread. Some people try to have a rational discussion, people with differing opinions disagree, name calling insues, one party gets hurt/annoyed/frustrated and leaves, discussion ends.

Let's at least not end the discussion on a sour note. I think Eric/Jay/Others have had some very good ideas in here. Let's not let them die.

Jason, my apologies if i upset Nick. But I do not appologise for my post. Nick made very distasteful comments to my post ,and really it makes no difference to me. I see senior people being insulted on a daily basis in all walks of life by junior "just had my first shave" know it all disrespectful youth of today. Actually one comes to expect this when the recipient is unable to comprehend what was actually posted! I made no personal attack on Nick as he claimed. And I reiterate he, NICK, not his ghost writer as you posted the comment. Jason, just because people with grey hairs seem a bit slower than you zapping whizzkids perceive them to be, JUST BEWARE, they are NOT. They are not FOOLS! They have trodden the path that you and your teenage pisstakers have yet to travel. I could go on a bit but I am aware your attention span is probably stretching TOOOOOOO far

[tommyc]

Any of you older players put up some money for the OLD WEST YOUNG GUN tournament?.....................says Wayne

John Acker and Bob Newell claim they are putting all proceeds from Basic Checkers sale into Youth checkers so theres your ready made Donor for the 1/0 Ty.Lets SEE the proof of the pudding?.I think yuve got something there Wayne in fact myself and Shane were just discussing this a few nights ago.Such a 1/0 Ty could be run over one night with the quick play format.Entry fee and WINNER TAKES ALL.

[Dennis Cayton]

I would also like to work in a 1/0 tournament in the evenings, so the young guns could play the regular tournament as well.

Young guns might get OLD GUN competition if the money is right, lol

Come show the world you are real and 1/0 is real

Greetings:

I think Wayne Gober is on to some excellent ideas here.

This entire discussion and debate has reminded me a lot of the "feuds" which have always existed in the "sport" of professional wrestling.

One key difference is that the feelings and tensions which have been expressed during this discussion have been very "real" instead of merely "acted out."

I believe that matches of this sort can be very successful if they are promoted effectively.

Please indulge me while I engage in a little bit of "fantasy" brainstorming:
__________

LIVE! ON PAY PER VIEW!

THE YOUNG GUNS VS. THE OLD GUNS CHECKERS BATTLE ROYAL!

ALL MATCHES PLAYED INSIDE A STEEL CAGE!
__________

I deliberately became a bit "silly" with my hyperbole above, but only to make a point.

I believe that Checkers might be able to benefit from some of the promotional methods which have made professional wrestling so popular and successful throughout the years, on a much more minor scale, of course.

For example, maybe a YouTube video, featuring a few confrontational "words" between a YOUNG GUN player and an OLD GUN player, can be created, for the purpose of promoting their upcoming match.

Of course, any such videos would have to adhere to high standards of decorum and good taste, and with no vulgarity.

Ultimately, I believe that the ACF sanctioning of matches of this type can have the effect of healing and shrinking the growing "divide" which exists between between players of different philosophical camps, in regard to their thoughts and sentiments about the "1.0" style of Checkers, and the more traditional styles as well.

I believe such matches, along with their effective promotion, can help raise the public consciousness of the game of Checkers, instead of casting it further into the darkness of public oblivion, which unfortunately is the trend I see occurring today.

In my opinion, effective promotion is a vital key.

Whatever methods of promotion are used, it is clear that some of the older methods are no longer working.

This is why I suggested the rather extreme, and perhaps ridiculous view, of maybe borrowing a few ideas from the promotional methods used in the industry of professional wrestling.

I believe something "new" has to be done, in order to more effectively promote the popularity and the competitive spirit of the game.

Therefore, I want to cast my vote of support for the ideas that Wayne Gober has proposed.

Good luck to all.

Best Wishes,

Dennis Cayton

[jaguar72]

All,

Okay, well, how about a little off-topic tranquility in the incredible turmoil of this thread?

I was at Borders this morning playing through Game No. 7 from Willie Ryan's Scientific Checkers Made Easy, a work practically garanteed to raise the level of anybody's game, maybe even mine. It was pretty quiet, I had a coffee, there was some decent music, occasionally people would stop and watch for a few mintues.

The game itself was quite beautiful and playing through it in that environment made me realize once again both the beauty and complexity of the game we play. The pieces themselves, their changing position on the board, the strokes and counterstrokes (some of which even I saw...), and the final position (it was a draw with Red about to equalize by getting a king) were all quite remarkable and quite soothing. And I really enjoy the upbeat Willie Ryan notes on various moves; I only wish there were more of them.

It's like listening to Mozart. Restored my equilibrium, it did.

I fully realize that to some people this activity would be about as interesting as watching paint dry but it does the job for me; no matter what's going on in my life, I always feel better about things after playing through a master game or two...and, of course, there are thousands upon thousands of games from which to chose.

Anyhow, here is this morning's game; play through it and perhaps restore your own equilibrium...you won't be sorry and what could it hurt?

Jack Cox (Red) vs. Willie Ryan (White):

11-15 24-19, 15-24 28-19, 9-14 22-18, 5-9 26-22, 7-11 27-24, 11-16 22-17, 16-20 31-27, 3-7 19-15, 10-26 17-3, 26-31 18-15, 6-10 15-6, 1-10 30-26, 31-22 25-18, 10-15 18-11, 8-15 29-25, 9-14 25-22, 14-18 22-17, 12-16 17-13, 18-22 13-9, 22-26 21-17 Drawn.

There you have it.

V/R,

Gary Jenkins/jaguar72

[Eric Strange]

Bernard... Your forgetting the part where us speed kiddies show up to tournaments and make some of these checkers players who have been playing for 60 years look stupid across the board at their own game. I'd love for you to come to Kurnik and I will play you ANY timer you want.... Lots of others proclaimed master players have come to Kurnik and I've had the liberty of ripping them apart and I'm far from being one of the best online players. I also mentioned SLOW online tournaments.... for some reason EVERYONE is solely focused on the fact that we play speed checkers.... I am sorry that your small mind cannot fathom being able to see moves that fast.... but once you've played thousand of games like that it is easy. When I watch some of you slow players take 5 minutes to make a move I saw instantly I want to cry....

I understand a lot of you players don't look at our blitz games as being "serious" as John basically said when it came to helping to fund a new type of tournament.... If you take your checkers so serious John.... and we don't... then how come you can't beat any of us.... some of our worst players who have been playing around 2 years could demolish you. We take our style of the game just as serious as you do and don't forget it.

I love your idea Wayne and would love to see something like that happen at a real tournament.

I would also like to try and have ACF sanctioned online tournaments in all different speeds, 60/30, 5/2, 1/1, 1/0, maybe not for money and maybe only with teamviewer and a webcam and only for ACF members...WOULD MAKE THE ACF A LOT MORE MONEY AND WOULD BE GREAT FOR THE MORAL OF ONLINE PLAYERS!!!!! I ALSO BET BY DOING THIS YOU GET MORE VOLUNTEERS FOR WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE LIKE RATINGS AND THINGS OF THAT SORT.

Nobody reallly responded to this idea....

P.S can we get away from the Harsh talk now and be constructive.... I will request next person who is being negative on my topic without a valid point be banned from posting in it. GG