Weak Position with a Strong Move for Checkers

[BillyBoy]

Hi All, Just got a simple question about this online speed tournaments. If everyone is in a room with someone watching over their shoulder why not just play speed games on a actuall board in this tournament? Billy

[Eric Strange]

When is it???? I will do my best to get Ray to go.

[Alex_Moiseyev]

Ohio tournament

Lets play blitz Round Robin tournament on Saturday with 3 minutes per game to each player, give the winner $20-$40 and title of OH Blitz Champion.

John, Rich, Alan, Neil - what do you think about this ? Do you think Lois will attend and be happy ?

Each round - 6-8 minutes, 7-9 3-moves rounds can be complete in 1.5 hr. Another possibility: 6-8 minutes for one ballot. But remember Eric - you have to play it fast enough to finish on time. If flag fails - you lost game.

[Bernard Coll]

Bernard... Your forgetting the part where us speed kiddies show up to tournaments and make some of these checkers players who have been playing for 60 years look stupid across the board at their own game. I'd love for you to come to Kurnik and I will play you ANY timer you want.... Lots of others proclaimed master players have come to Kurnik and I've had the liberty of ripping them apart and I'm far from being one of the best online players. I also mentioned SLOW online tournaments.... for some reason EVERYONE is solely focused on the fact that we play speed checkers.... I am sorry that your small mind cannot fathom being able to see moves that fast.... but once you've played thousand of games like that it is easy. When I watch some of you slow players take 5 minutes to make a move I saw instantly I want to cry....

I understand a lot of you players don't look at our blitz games as being "serious" as John basically said when it came to helping to fund a new type of tournament.... If you take your checkers so serious John.... and we don't... then how come you can't beat any of us.... some of our worst players who have been playing around 2 years could demolish you. We take our style of the game just as serious as you do and don't forget it.

I love your idea Wayne and would love to see something like that happen at a real tournament.

I would also like to try and have ACF sanctioned online tournaments in all different speeds, 60/30, 5/2, 1/1, 1/0, maybe not for money and maybe only with teamviewer and a webcam and only for ACF members...WOULD MAKE THE ACF A LOT MORE MONEY AND WOULD BE GREAT FOR THE MORAL OF ONLINE PLAYERS!!!!! I ALSO BET BY DOING THIS YOU GET MORE VOLUNTEERS FOR WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE LIKE RATINGS AND THINGS OF THAT SORT.

Nobody reallly responded to this idea....

P.S can we get away from the Harsh talk now and be constructive.... I will request next person who is being negative on my topic without a valid point be banned from posting in it. GG

Thanks for your offer Eric but I have never visited Kurnik and never intended to. I have nu wish to lower myself or my game to that format of play. I feel that a clique on your forums can post insults and vulgarites regularly with impunity. Seems that ACF mods are applying double standards here.

[waynegober]

Billy wrote,

Just got a simple question about this online speed tournaments. If everyone is in a room with someone watching over their shoulder why not just play speed games on a actuall board in this tournament

This would require clocks and the operation of the clocks. My idea was to simulate as closely as possible the conditions these players use online. Same room (kunik) , timers ect. The mouse ect. could be strange to them but they could bring their laptops and equipment. My only concern is that the machines are all close to the same speed.

Wayne

[Dennis Cayton]

P.S can we get away from the Harsh talk now and be constructive.... I will request next person who is being negative on my topic without a valid point be banned from posting in it. GG

Greetings Eric Strange:

In view of your statement above, how do you justify accusing older players of looking "stupid", as you did in the opening sentence of the very same post?

To wit:

Bernard... Your forgetting the part where us speed kiddies show up to tournaments and make some of these checkers players who have been playing for 60 years look stupid across the board at their own game.

Don't the same standards you now want to apply to others apply to yourself as well?

Or did you just want to take your "last shot" before proposing these standards?

Here goes another insult you made:

I am sorry that your small mind cannot fathom being able to see moves that fast

Another shot?

And now you want to ban any poster who is "negative" on your topic?

Perhaps, you should perform some serious self-examination and make sure your own house is in order first.

May peace be with you.

Best Wishes,

Dennis Cayton

[Jason Solan]

Bernard,
I'm not trying to apply a double standard here. I sent Eric a private message about his post as well. I couldn't agree more with what Dennis stated, I just want to try to keep this topic on topic.

When I watch some of you slow players take 5 minutes to make a move I saw instantly I want to cry....

Perhaps someone with a better knowledge of this can correct me or fill in the gaps, but I remember hearing a story about MFT that went something like this.

Tinsley was playing a game against an opponent and the next move was pretty obvious to everyone watching, but Marion sat there looking intently at the board. The bystander started thinking that maybe the "obvious" move was the best one and thats what was taking so long. He kept trying to find the weakness in this move or why another would be better. After some number of minutes Tinsley made the move as expected and won the game.
After the game someone asked him why he took so long on that move. His answer was "I remember playing this position several years ago and was playing out in my mind how I won that game."

Taking a long time to think about moves isn't about not seeing the move, it's about seeing the end of the game from that position.

As far as the blitz tournament in OK, I would be really interested to see how these players play with a clock rather than a mouse. I've got to believe the mouse is quicker than the hand for most of these players.
I recall seeing Alex play some blitz games against Nathan Gogo at Ohio a number of years ago. It was pretty obvious that Alex's hand is faster than his mouse.
I really like the idea in general, but in all honesty I can't see a lot of blitz players wanting to go to a tournament to use their computers for a tournament that would probably last less than an hour.

[jaguar72]

When I watch some of you slow players take 5 minutes to make a move I saw instantly I want to cry....

Wow. Instantly. Then I guess it's a good thing that players like Marion Tinsley, Walter Hellman and Willie Ryan are no longer with us.

Obviously they wouldn't stand a chance... .

V/R,

Gary Jenkins/jaguar72

[Bernard Coll]

Ohio tournament

Lets play blitz Round Robin tournament on Saturday with 3 minutes per game to each player, give the winner $20-$40 and title of OH Blitz Champion.

John, Rich, Alan, Neil - what do you think about this ? Do you think Lois will attend and be happy ?

Each round - 6-8 minutes, 7-9 3-moves rounds can be complete in 1.5 hr. Another possibility: 6-8 minutes for one ballot. But remember Eric - you have to play it fast enough to finish on time. If flag fails - you lost game.

Why play blitz? Eric and "Nick" (or whoever allegedly made the posts) have claimed many times that I'm a bad checkers player all around, so surely they could beat me on a regular timer. In fact, maybe I'll start a Patzer Club and parade through the virtual streets of Kurnik shouting "I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy!" Lindus and Bernard, want to be charter members with me?

Thanks for the offer John, but I wish to decline. It would only provide more food for the negative posters.

[Eric Strange]

I believe I requested a constructive topic in the beginning and since others strayed from this I decided I would take my "Shot" as well.

Bernard... I didn't ask you to come to kurnik for blitz games... I asked you to come for REAL games. John... I challenge you ALLLL the time on Kurnik and you always back down so please don't start talking tough on here.

I loved that post about Marion and that makes a lot of sense. Do you guys realize that I do play slow timers with any ACF player at Kurnik though... or players I know, I play Tucker all the time, I've played Gober, Teal, Irma, Mortimer, Ken. Michael Holmes, Clint Olson, Ryan Pronk, Alex M.... I play Bob Murr at the park here quite often.... So please stop making everything I say ALL about blitz games... I like slow games also.... Since I play both I have respect for both.

You guys are still hung on having Blitz at tournaments... Was there mail play at tournaments????? How about we start small and do the teamviewer + webcam tournaments I was talking about earlier and have ALL different timers and both GAYP and 3-move. I still have not been hearing very much on this??

Once we can get this idea big online (This is something worth promoting to all sites), get a large player base for these tournaments.... then we can pull a fast one and try to have them at a real tournament and probably get a good showing. Right now I think if u held it we wouldn't get a great showing. I am sure we could get some of us Kurnik players to manage this, advertise this and do everything we can for this idea. Just need to get ACF backing the idea for us.

So can I get some opinions on this exact subject before I call Alan?

[Bernard Coll]

I believe I requested a constructive topic in the beginning and since others strayed from this I decided I would take my "Shot" as well.

Bernard... I didn't ask you to come to kurnik for blitz games... I asked you to come for REAL games. John... I challenge you ALLLL the time on Kurnik and you always back down so please don't start talking tough on here.

I loved that post about Marion and that makes a lot of sense. Do you guys realize that I do play slow timers with any ACF player at Kurnik though... or players I know, I play Tucker all the time, I've played Gober, Teal, Irma, Mortimer, Ken. Michael Holmes, Clint Olson, Ryan Pronk, Alex M.... I play Bob Murr at the park here quite often.... So please stop making everything I say ALL about blitz games... I like slow games also.... Since I play both I have respect for both.

You guys are still hung on having Blitz at tournaments... Was there mail play at tournaments????? How about we start small and do the teamviewer + webcam tournaments I was talking about earlier and have ALL different timers and both GAYP and 3-move. I still have not been hearing very much on this??

Eric< I have already stated that I have never visited Kurnik, nor do I ever intend to, for blitz or any other variant you wish to name. I would like to say to you and all your blitz friends, Do you really think that is all that there is to playing draughts/checkers? firing off moves at ridiculous speeds knowing your opponent has to keep up or lose. You all claim to see things in fractions of seconds. Do you really? I don't think so. Have you ever thought about the endless possibilities that were MISSED? Yes. MISSED. It's a pity these fast games could not be recorded and then re-run slowly. I am sure there would be many embarrassed looks around. Even in slow play (ie) 28 moves per hour, many easy enough wins have been overlooked by master and grandmaster player alike, as post game analysis has proved on many occassions. Are you still suggesting blitzers instantly get the right combination effortlessly time and time again?

[Eric Strange]

NO.... but like u said.... slow players dont see the right moves time and time again either. I believe that if u took a slow player and a fast player and put them next to each other with the same position on the board and said "White to move and win" the good blitz player would see the move much faster than the slow player. I am sure we do miss a lot.... but that does not mean that we aren't playing a strong game. I play the same slow.... as I do fast for the most part.... especially in gayp because I have most lines I could fall into memorized all the way to end game from playing them so much.

[Bernard Coll]

NO.... but like u said.... slow players dont see the right moves time and time again either. I believe that if u took a slow player and a fast player and put them next to each other with the same position on the board and said "White to move and win" the good blitz player would see the move much faster than the slow player. I am sure we do miss a lot.... but that does not mean that we aren't playing a strong game. I play the same slow.... as I do fast for the most part.... especially in gayp because I have most lines I could fall into memorized all the way to end game from playing them so much.

Eric, Your comments remind me of an old adage that applies to both checkers and MARRIAGE; move in haste , and regret at leisure. Again I am not trying to provoke!

[Eric Strange]

OK Bernard you are subject to your own opinion... so back to ACF sanctioning some online tournaments.... NOT FOR STANDARD ACF RATING.... just maybe standing behind it?


I see ur looking at forum Alan...what do you think?

[tommyc]

I wish some one would give Erics ideas a chance,he is a very postive poster.

I met this lad in Vegas 2007 when he won the Minors and is consider myself a good judge of character..i liked the guy .........and his posts have been forward thinking......i cant understand why the ACF are not taking him seriously.

I will guarntee i believe in this lad .Harness the "leader of the pack ".........his name is Eric,and the rest will follow.

Lets have a new horizon and new thinking.................."leave no one behind"?