IRISH OPEN /QUALIFER 2010

[Irma Sierra]

Sorry Alex, I was posting at same time of you talking about the same.....

[kim willis]

hi william and Alex,
Thank u guys. I did protest, before my rd yesterday. have to wait. This could have been a whole different game, I said over and over she shud have to forfeit that game. It is just like this is nothing. I will tell u all this is my last WQ period. I am done. This was not dealt with right. Very unprofessional.

kim

[william]

Thank you Alex ,

I was just about to correct Ingo myself when I saw that this had been done.

Ingo if you want to state the rules , then please read them properly first! or hold your tongue boy!!

This also could be the reason of the fumbling stumbling referees , perhaps they did not study enough the rules before they took the job on.... which means that they took this task too lightly Which means that they are totally disrespectful and totally unaware of the energy that we professional players put into this game!!.And this is the problem!! Kim Alex , Ron , Myself and many others put intense study time into this game , sacrificing valued familly time so that we may raise the game and our levels to a higher standard , only to be let down by amaturish refereeing!!

Kim , make an official complaint please BUT play this ty out ... you have to block out these negative people who do our game no good , and do what you came here to do , play checkers !!

Once again I am so sorry , and apologise on behalf of the Scottish draughts playing community who I am sure are all as equally disgusted as myself and Alex

William

[william]

Kim

You can also let the "organisers" know that two of the worlds top players (Alex and myself) have given their views on this sad story , and that we are stunned by such a situation

my number is 00 33 6 75 32 84 07 , if they want to call me for further "information"

[kiwinurse]

Hi,I want to speak on this.In all fairness to the referrees,they are running a tight ship at the qualifier,and keeping everybody fully aware of what is required. in fact i must say that this is one of the better run qualifiers ive attended.'At the beginning of the match the rules were stated by the referrees,but they forgot to say not to go to rooms but stick to the playing area.this was not spelt out at the beginning,so in all fairness,this needed to be said.
For my opinion in what its worth i think that Toyeva should forfeit that game,just by the fact that she was away for longer than what was mentioned by the referrees,not because she went to her room,because it was not spelt out.
This was corrected the next morning,but of course the damage had been done.
I think myself it is a very well run tournament,and im here.They are doing their best,and in past years ive heard of a lot worse happening at qualifiers,in america and everywhere else. Jan Mortimer

[john reade]

Kim Willis v Toyeva Hurmagul

Toyeva was interviewed last night (28 October) by the 2 controllers Jim Somers and Graham Young and 3 members of the WCDF Executive Board Ian Caws, Sean Phillips and John Reade.

It appears that there has been a misunderstanding between Toyeva and Jim. Toyeva asked for 15 minutes between the 2 games with Kim and thought she had been granted this. She speaks very little English. She was asked whether she consulted any books while she was in her room. She answered no.

The committee decided that Toyeva should be cautioned, and asked to observe the 5 minute rule for the break between games with the same opening for the rest of the tournament. The result of the second game on Wednesday afternoon should stand.

John Reade, WCDF Secretary, 29 October 2010.

[Alex_Moiseyev]

Thanks, John !

Perhaps the best thing you can do now - make an official announcemnt for all other players and deliver information which you just shared with us.

Everything must public and open as much as you can.

Obviously anyone can go to the room anytime, but ... this must be done with companion. I remember Ron King once went to his room between 1st and 2nd game for medicine, and refree was with him. Also, someone from referee Committee should be always around smoking designated area ... especially during events with big number of participants.

Regards.

Alex

[Ingo_Zachos]

Dear checkers-/draughtsfriends,

as I see a decision had been made.
Jan is right to point out that the referees are running on a tight ship, maybe even more then the players involved.
Also John Reade informed us about the decision that had been made. They warned the player in question.

My question:
in which rule is it said that between a game players may take not longer then 15 minutes?
I only found rule number 2.21 that says that in absence of one of the players for a session the clock shall be started.
and in 2.23 it gives a tolerance time of 1 hour, not 15 minutes.

If someone could quote the rule or give the rule number, I would appreciate that very much.

Also I want to point out once again that the rules clearly say that the players may not leave during a game, but does not prohibit it in any explicit way in between games.

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So let us look at the rules.

As William said, you better know them, and so I took them out and read them again.
Here are the rules that may apply to that case, but do not actually require a player to wait and not to leave after a gameat alll.


4.6 Players are not permitted to walk / stand around the playing area to view other games that are in progress. Players who have finished their games shall be considered to be spectators.


Note that it talks of games, not of rounds or sessions. And makes no destinction between first and second game. Also it says players, not spectators, on which 4.6 gives a clear-cut definition.

also here is:

2.13 Players shall not be allowed to walk away from the board during the game, other than to go to the toilet or smoking break. In this instance the clocks shall be kept running.

Note:
it says during a game, not after a game or in between any games.

and:

4.5 A player is forbidden to leave their board when it is their turn to move, without the permission of the tournament controller.(Also see 2.13)

This also applies to a situation during a game, not if a game has finished or in between games.

even more telling is:

4.6 Players are not permitted to walk / stand around the playing area to view other games that are in progress. Players who have finished their games shall be considered to be spectators.

So during a game, a player may not even run around, but after the game they are spectators, not players anymore.


2.21 If a player is not present at the start of a session, their opponent, in consultation with the tournament controller shall start their clock in their absence.


Note that here "session" is used, not game. But it also says that a game may even start in the absence of a player.


2.23 If a player arrives before an hour has elapsed, they may play the game, but with the reduced time available to them.

So the tolerance is one hour, but not 15 minutes. But the rules do not say if there is a break between a fisr game of the same ballot and the starting of the clock in the second game.

Note that the rules do not distinguish between games in two different rounds with different opening ballots or games in one round with the same opening.

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May I apologize if I hurt the feeling of any forum user, but I am very much interested in the rules and like to make my decisons as a refere at the German Opens based on the rules and facts.

To quote William:

"Ingo if you want to state the rules , then please read them properly first! or hold your tongue boy!!"

I read them and quoted them above as required, so plz tell me where the rules state anything else but that that after a game a player may leave the playing area without consequences.

In no rule I could find that a player should be forfeited after leaving, but I may not have read properly enough.

So can you do the same and provide the rules that correct me?

And once again, i am intersted in the subject, and want to know about the rules.


Greetinx from cold Germany,

Ingo Zachos

[Bernard Coll]

Should the onus not be on the competing players to actually read and understand the rules also? Where do you draw the line with referees watching players? I note there are 3 female competitors, but a male only refereeing panel. So to keep players withim eyeshot the referee would actually have to follow players into the toilet!! What is to stop a player having a three move guide and chart on their person whenever they visit the toilets?

[liam stephens]

Hi Ingo,

I believe those rules are
"More honoured in the breach than in the observance."
In my experience many of the so called professional players are often the worst offenders in this regard. (walking round and looking at other boards)

In my view, the torrent of abuse towards tournament officials should cease. As far as I am aware the officials of the ACF or WCDF are not paid for their services and similarly for the other European draughts/checkers organisations. They give their services for free and out of dedication to the game. But, even in fully professional sports such as the recent Association Football (Soccer) World Cup, not all the money in the world or set of game regulations could prevent bad behaviour from a minority.

Regards - Liam.

[Bernard Coll]

Thank you Alex ,

I was just about to correct Ingo myself when I saw that this had been done.

Ingo if you want to state the rules , then please read them properly first! or hold your tongue boy!!

This also could be the reason of the fumbling stumbling referees , perhaps they did not study enough the rules before they took the job on.... which means that they took this task too lightly Which means that they are totally disrespectful and totally unaware of the energy that we professional players put into this game!!.And this is the problem!! Kim Alex , Ron , Myself and many others put intense study time into this game , sacrificing valued familly time so that we may raise the game and our levels to a higher standard , only to be let down by amaturish refereeing!!

Kim , make an official complaint please BUT play this ty out ... you have to block out these negative people who do our game no good , and do what you came here to do , play checkers !!

Once again I am so sorry , and apologise on behalf of the Scottish draughts playing community who I am sure are all as equally disgusted as myself and Alex

Hello William, I see you have appointed yourself as the official spokesperson for the Scottish players. Actually I am rather bemused as to why you feel the Scottish players have to appologise!!?? Is this not a WCDF run tournament? Also William, whilst you are in appologetic mode, I would like to remind you that you have overlooked publicly appologising to the Youngs in your ill thought out and totally unwarranted personal attacks on them. Remember your (Scandal at the Scottish Open) posts? William, I do realise that as an individual you have free will, and that you could keep your head in the sand. The choice is yours, BUT until a public appology to the Youngs is forthcoming you will always be viewed in a negative light by the SDA and the checker playing community. Sincerely, Bernard Coll. Vice President of the SDA.

[Hugh Devlin]

Round 5 – King beat Tovagliaro 3-1 while Borghetti beat Amangul 4-0.
Now King & Borghetti are joint leaders on 15pts, Holmes & Webster 13pts, Best of Irish Mc Cosker 12pts.

Toyeva Hurmangul beat Kim Willis 4-0 meaning that Jan Mortimer now needs to win 3-1 against Hurmangul to win in their final head-to head while Hurmangul only needs two draws.

Muksat Durdyev becomes new World Youth (3 Move ) champion

[tommyc]

Hi Ingo...............thank you,you have made a whole pile of valid points in your post ,does the present rules need to be completely re-written if as you pointed out there are so many discrepencies,and what idiot wrote them in the first place?/?.


and to Bern Coll..........quite right Bern re Billy Doherty he was bang out of order and should apologise to the Youngs (who have kept draughts going in Scotland when he was no-where to be seen)

These guys who are pretty good players think that they are gods gift to draughts and can boss the rest of us about........yu ve seen the inference "tell them that 2 of the worlds top players have said so" in relation to the barny in Dublin.STOP THE BUS.I think Billy needs a reality check or a week in the sanitorium to get check(er)ed over?/LOL........come back good body¬!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tommyc]

...

I was just checking the time difference (...)and we are 6hrs in front of USA time however by tomor nite when we put our "clocks back 1 hour!" we will be back to 5 hrs difference.

[Ingo_Zachos]

Wow.

It looks like a tight race bwtween two legendary players.
Will "Grande Michele" triumph over Ron King right at the first attempt and gain the right to challenge Alex Moiseyev?

Note that Boghetti is for the italian draughts fans like Marion Tinsley to the fans of the english style.
The best of all times!

Or can the most successful tournament player of all times, Ron King, for this time outperform his equal rival?

The last three rounds may decide the issue by an hair, or maybe we even get to see a tiebreak?

I don't know, Josh, if you are right, as Borghetti is able to perfom on a World Champions level, even without much pp-knowledge (for the english style that is).
But give him a few month, and this might change.
It is easier to memorize pp and to find a team to get some cooks then to mend any deficit in calculation skills.

Ron King was a challenge to Alex in 2009, and Ron's pp is GAYP pp with tournament expirience in 3-move.

Note that in Italy they also play 3-move, and the differences are not that great, as say for origin draughts 100 players or Shashki players like the Durdyevs or Martynov or Shabshai.

Anyway, that is an exciting show.

And the new generation will, as always, prevail in the end.
But Ron still bites and it looks like the task for the youngsters will be very hard for years to come.

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As for the ladies, I 'll keep my fingers crossed for my friend Jan, but she needs to do her best.
But I know she can do it.

Also my regards to Kim.
You did prove that you are competive, and maybe issues from "behind the board" effected your play unduly.
I hope that this time the event produces a challenger that is willing to accept the complicated rules that the WCDF imposes, and that a host for this match can be found.

As for the promotion of the game, we need matches and tournaments.
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I am sad to hear that there were only two youth players.
That definately needs improvement very badly.

Congratulations to the new title holder.
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Greetinx from Dortmund, Germany

Ingo