2010 year end online checkers rankings

[charles clodfelter]

Are these online speed tournaments backed the ACF now?!

[Alex_Moiseyev]

I also don't understand - why ACF, National body, should be involve here ? Kurnik is Internet International website. If you want folks - you can register in WCDF as "Kurnik Online Checkers Association (KOCA)", pay annual fee $100 to WCDF and send two best players to GAYP Qualify Tournament next year. All you need - to register your organisation. I think it's legal, legitimate and meet WCDF BY-LAWS requirements and conditions.

You have to select President of your Association and do some minimum paperwork - create Constitution etc. You can contact with Dr. John Reade, England (WCDF Secretary) regarding details and paperwork.

Why not ??? Do something on your own guys ... or you expect someone else should do this for you ??? You don't need endorsement and recognition from ACF, you can send players to QT directly and independently and do not have any obligations against National Federations, government or whatsoever.

Alex

[Eric Strange]

I also don't understand - why ACF, National body, should be involve here ? Kurnik is Internet International website. If you want folks - you can register in WCDF as "Kurnik Online Checkers Association (KOCA)", pay annual fee $100 to WCDF and send two best players to GAYP Qualify Tournament next year. All you need - to register your organisation. I think it's legal, legitimate and meet WCDF BY-LAWS requirements and conditions.

You have to select President of your Association and do some minimum paperwork - create Constitution etc. You can contact with Dr. John Reade, England (WCDF Secretary) regarding details and paperwork.

Why not ??? Do something on your own guys ... or you expect someone else should do this for you ??? You don't need endorsement and recognition from ACF, you can send players to QT directly and independently and do not have any obligations against National Federations, government or whatsoever.

Alex

I think you guys are misunderstanding Chee's post. He was just sharing his personal opinion of what players played the best online this year. This "Online Checkers Federation" is just a term of endearment for online checkers play currently and is not an official federation. Chee and I enjoy organizing match ups between top online players and creating an opinionated ranking system. This is all for fun and thought since many ACF players also play in Kurnik that it would be a good thing to see.

It is also upsetting to see that 4 of the top 5 have never been to a checkers tournament and 6 of the top 10. Most of these online players haven't been to a checkers tournament because of lack of funds to make it. So the idea of funding top players to go to tournaments is far fetched currently. I do however have a plan to create a real online based ranking system by holding online tournaments and see what happens from there.

For now we are just checkers players like all of you and would like to share checkers things with you guys. It is very unfortunate that the first things said are "WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THE ACF."
I honestly think Max should be put above Fredo and Alex... Considering Alex got beat pretty badly last time he played max. The ACF and its members should be trying to embrace the online players instead of out casting them.... But I am sure I have covered this topic many times. Too bad nobody listens.

[Alex_Moiseyev]

I honestly think Max should be put above Fredo and Alex... Considering Alex got beat pretty badly last time he played max.

Eric, you just crossed the line and completely kicked me off from playing online. In the past several years I wasn't very active, sometimes coming at 12-1 in the night after work hours and playing for fun. I never take it seriously and now I see the damage of this.

We allready discussed here many times and came up to conclusion that online and real play have very little in common. I can easy play 10 games for 10 minutes but only with real clocks, no mouse. And also under professional environment. I don't play World Championship matches on Kurnik, you lost sense of reality.

Concerning financing ... Alan Millhone told me a year ago that ACF can pay fully or partially expanses for Fredo, Ray and Jolt if they want to come, but they didn't show any interest at all. So - it's not a question to ACF, but you should ask them why they don't want to come.

Alan can correct me if I am wrong. We can also research if this offer is still valid and active this year.

Chee ranking cannot be called "online", this is too ambitious because there are other playing sites where most of Kurnik players never show up.

Nick played this year in Minors and won it graciously. He found a way to finance, share room and also ACF helped him when he came to Springfield. I think his expanses were miserable considering the price he won. So ... whats the problem ??? The problem is - players which you mentioned just don't want to come for various reasons, but all these reasons - not ACF faults.

Happy New year to you and your family !

[Eric Strange]

I honestly think Max should be put above Fredo and Alex... Considering Alex got beat pretty badly last time he played max.

Eric, you just completely kicked me off from playing online. In the past several years I wasn't very active, sometimes coming at 12-1 in the night after work hours and playing for fun. I never take it seriously and now I see the damage of this.

We allready discussed here many times and came up to conclusion that online and real play have very little in common. I can easy play 10 games for 10 minutes but only with real clocks, no mouse. And also under professional environment. I don't play World Championship matches on Kurnik, you lost sense of reality.

Concerning financing ... Alan Millhone told me a year ago that ACF can pay fully or partially expanses for Fredo, Ray and Jolt if they want to come, but they didn't show any interest at all. So - it's not a question to ACF, but you should ask them why they don't want to come.

Alan can correct me if I am wrong. We can also research if this offer is still valid and active this year.

Chee ranking cannot be called "online", this is too ambitious because there are other playing sites where most of Kurnik players never show up.

Nick played this year in Minors and won it graciously. He found a way to finance, share room and also ACF helped him when he came to Springfield. I think his expanses were miserable considering the price he won. So ... whats the problem ??? The problem is - players which you mentioned just don't want to come for various reasons, but all these reasons - not ACF faults.

Happy New year to you and your family !

I said they should be put above you in our ONLINE rankings list. I did not mean he was better player than you in general... just that he played better than you ONLINE. That is why with ONLINE ranking I think he should be above you. A lot of kurnik players play at other sites!!! I often go to yahoo, pogo, facebook etc. The level of game play at those sites are terrible except facebook who has a bunch of foreign players who use programs obviously. Your right... a lot of players do not want to play in live tournaments for many reasons. I said it was sad that 6 of the top 10 haven't been to a tournament... at no point did I blame that on the ACF... I do not know where ur getting this from. It is very understandable that your not playing your best online.... why would you??? So people can study the lines u play and use them against u at a tournament. That would be a horrible idea. We completely enjoy u coming online to mess around and play some games with us and I am sorry you took what I said as an attack on your skill level. I only meant Online play. That was the topic of conversation. The ACF is starting to become much more supportive of online players and it is very appreciated. If you would like to fund a player then contact Chee. He really wants to play in a tournament but cannot afford it. He lives in Minnesota and is a good gayp and 3-move player. The part about outcasting is brought by the negative feedback regarding the standing posted. I am also not saying the ACF as a whole but a lot of members who have bad opinion about us... which I do understand is the ugly manner in how many of us carry ourselves. Please re-read my post with less negative thoughts... I am not here to attack anyone only express my opinions.

[Alex_Moiseyev]

and I am sorry you took what I said as an attack on your skill level. I only meant Online play.

OK, I accept your appologise. Watch your mouth next time poor boy Nobody never challenge me for free and now I owe from you 2, not - 3 beers !

I will talk with Alan, Rich and Kim again next year to see - if they can help Chee and Nick play in National. Fredo, Ray and Jolt should play in 3 moves ... maybe some state ? I don't know who Max is. You said that he beated me badly but I can't recall this. Maybe he used some nick which I didn't know about and I didn't consider him as danger opponent. I don't remember this story but I don't say it's not happened. I just don't remember

And pleaaase ... never say again anything bad about my skills. You can call me idiot, you can call me impotent lol, you can call me bank robber or Republican, but you can't call me "not the best checker player". Not because I don't like it, but because it is not true !

Alex

[Dennis Cayton]

And pleaaase ... never say again anything bad about my skills. You can call me idiot, you can call me impotent lol, you can call me bank robber or Republican, but you can't call me "not the best checker player". Not because I don't like it, but because it is not true !

Alex

Greetings Alex:

I am a Republican, and I consider being called a Republican to be one of the highest of compliments.

Best Wishes,

Dennis Cayton

[adamjohnson]

I am Max by the way Alex real name Adam, im 21 years old from England. I'd just like to point out firstly, how can you not be trying your best ? for example me and Jolt played 16 sets 2 weeks ago, and alot of games were played pretty much perfect and this was 3 move.

The timer was 2/2 and to play at that level with that amount of time, considering you guys have about 10x more time at tournaments. Is very good no doubt.

You may not be feeling up to it on a certain day, or the timer maybe too fast for you. But don't try and say your not playing your best, because that simply isn't true.

Because everyone is always trying to win, and once you reach a certain level. The skill level gap between the top players isn't that much, and you'd have to be playing your best to beat the elite players at Kurnik.

Im not trying to attack anyone, but i really don't think some of you guys understand. The skill level at Playok, most tournament players fail to even reach top 10 there.

I enjoy playing checkers i don't take it overly serious, although im competitive which you have to be obviously.

But i've never studied any books or ETC, the level i got to took me about 6 and a half years to get to. With alot of breaks in between, because im a young man and have other stuff to do.

But i wish Alex that you would come and play me some good/fun games again. And i don't care about having it recorded or anything like that, but just to play for fun.

[Jay H]

The Internet Checkers Federation's 2010 ranking and current champion:

Current Kurnik heavyweight (1/1-3/2 timer) three move checkers title holder: the warrior Max
Full name: Adam "the warrior Max" Johnson
Age: 21
Country: United Kingdoms


2010 Kurnik 1/1-3/2 three move Heavyweight division ranking (overall performance in 2010):

1. Alex Moiseyev
2. Alfredo Mercado (Fredo) - The most consistent top online player. Jolt, Max, Sergio, Ray and Shane has recently shown that they are not far behind so Fredo will have to study hard to remain at the top.
3. The warrior Max - There is no player better at positional control than the warrior Max, if he learns published play he will kill just about anyone. His tie up game is even effective in Brazilian draughts although obviously not at the highest levels.
4. Jolt - Although he don't seem to be as dominant as in previous years, the Chinese master is still one of the best.
5. Ray - We hope he will play top competition in 2011. He won a match against the Italian master Sergio and a small match against the Chinese master Jolt, while narrowly losing to Fredo.
6. Sergio Scarpetta - Michelle Borghetti's second in command, does well against Ray, Max and Fredo. Has won some matches against them although losing overall.
7. Shane McCosker - The most successful offline player to have played in Kurnik since Clayton Nash and Alex Moiseyev. With his book knowledge, he is rarely in danger. We hope that he would continue to play in Kurnik against the best online players. Has proven that he can hang with the likes of Fredo and Ray.
8. Qjich - Qjich don't take the game that serious anymore but is still a force.
9. Kevin Burks - Not a serious player anymore and going to prison soon unfortunately but he's played as much as Ray in his few short visits this year so we decided to rank him, very good at waiting moves and controlling the tempo.
10. Chee - Defeated retired better players such as Clint Olsen and Jay in their recent visits therefore is ranked ahead of them.

Notable mentions: Eric Strange (his three move improved this year), Chris, Clint Olsen, Jay (was once on the level of Fredo, Ray and better than the 2008 version of the warrior Max)

An excellent post...I often wondered who were the stronger internet players. Thanx for your ratings here...whether biased or not...great job

Quoteth Alex.....
I also don't understand - why ACF, National body, should be involve here ? Kurnik is Internet International website. If you want folks - you can register in WCDF as "Kurnik Online Checkers Association (KOCA)", pay annual fee $100 to WCDF and send two best players to GAYP Qualify Tournament next year. All you need - to register your organisation. I think it's legal, legitimate and meet WCDF BY-LAWS requirements and conditions.

You have to select President of your Association and do some minimum paperwork - create Constitution etc. You can contact with Dr. John Reade, England (WCDF Secretary) regarding details and paperwork.

Why not ??? Do something on your own guys ... or you expect someone else should do this for you ??? You don't need endorsement and recognition from ACF, you can send players to QT directly and independently and do not have any obligations against National Federations, government or whatsoever.

Alex

I agree that some sort of organizational effort should be put forward to creating an Internet Checkers Federation....but not necessarily towards the end of sending a nominee from an internet organization to "cross-over" to crossboard tournaments, but to stand on its own merits. Why not They are two different things....not the least of which is the time allowed per move.....Create it, I'll join, even tho' I don't play much on the internet.
Hell....I have been a member of the ACF on and off since 1985, and have never played in a crossboard tournament (I used to play on the Mail play ladders, and in a few district mail tourneys)....I can certainly become a supporting member of an Internet based organization....with structure, I would probably even play more online.
VIVA LA INTERNET CHECKERS FEDERATION


Regards

Jay H

[Alex_Moiseyev]

Chee / Eric,

I will be on Kurnik tonight at 10:00-10:15 PM Eastern time (same as New York). I would like to set a conference chat with both of you, Fredo, Ray and Jolt only. Can you try to get all or most of them here ? If necessary - we can change date and time trying to get all of them.

I would like to talk about possibility to cover their full or partial expanses (+ Chee expanses). I just want to be sure that all or some of them are really interested and we may talk and discuss details and options. Noone else will be allow to participate in chat - I don't like much noise and want to talk seriously with serious people.

Regards,

Alex

[Jay H]

What advantage would an online federation offer? The individual websites already calculate ratings, there are no tournaments or ladders to speak of, and players join and leave individual cliques as often as they want. More to the point, in a world based on anonymity and not accountability, any organization seems rather pointless.

Hey John,
Hope all has been well.
You know I love you man...so I feel I can tackle this without restriction, and knowing that no offense is being given, nor taken.

"What advantage would an online federation offer?"
We all carry the flags we choose to as individuals.The people that would be willing to support such an endeavor would find an advantage if they choose to do so. If it does not work, it would just dry up and fade away, and lessons would be learned. As with anything else, if you don't feel like "dipping your toes in the water"...or, if something does not appeal to you, simply do not support it.

"The individual websites already calculate ratings, there are no tournaments or ladders to speak of, and players join and leave individual cliques as often as they want."
With an organized Internet Checkers Federation, there could (and should)be tourneys and ladders created, which would be (I am sure) one of the features of such a Federation.
IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, and an opinion which I KNOW is shared by many, the American Checker Federation is, in and of itself, a "clique"...this will NEVER change, as this goes all the way back to the days when the ACF was formed.

"More to the point, in a world based on anonymity and not accountability, any organization seems rather pointless"
Agreed !!
BUT, with the organization of an Internet based Checkers "Federation", and dues-paying ,card-carrying membership, there would be NO anonymity, and there WOULD be accountability . That would be the point of such an organization.....I believe that many would like to be a part of it.
I personally believe that the ACF should find a way to support it, embrace it.........if the ACF does not wish to do so, that is fine.
There is a hole that should be filled.....
I , myself, would contribute NO LESS to the ACF if I was contributing to an "online" body of organization. I would fully support ANY movement that holds as its purpose for existence the continued promotion of this incredibly challenging game, and the rewarding of its top players, whether they be crossboard players, mail players (yeah well) or internet players.

Wishing you the best dude, and keep up the good work !!!

Regards

Jay H

[Jay H]

But i wish Alex that you would come and play me some good/fun games again. And i don't care about having it recorded or anything like that, but just to play for fun.

Heyyyyy....
IF this ever happens, let us (me) know...I would love to come and watch it happen live


Regards

Jay H

[Alex_Moiseyev]

But i wish Alex that you would come and play me some good/fun games again. And i don't care about having it recorded or anything like that, but just to play for fun.

Hello, Adam ! For fun yeah ... but when we finish our match (rated or unrated), people will re-count rating and score. Lets say you beat me badly or opposite - I beat you badly ... and based on this information people will be making assumption and verdicts and it is not a fun anymore.

I don't consider online play seriously, even if me and my opponent try to play with full strength and seriously. There are always too many things around which don't make the whole process serious for me. For almost 45 years I am playing with boards, pieces, clocks, pen, scoresheets. It is hard to change this attitude and why I should ??? As part of process and spirit, I would like to see real board and touch pieces - can you forgive me for this ?

Checkers (real checkers) is sport. Playing in real competitive atmopshere, when many stakes are on the table (title, money, etc) makes it absolutely different. You can win alot, but you also can lose many things. In addition, score is important and match/tournament situation is important ... bla-bla-bla ... everything is important and makes it different.

Adam, I'll be glad to play with on Kurnik and I am sure - we will do it soon.

Happy New Year to you and your family !

BTW. When I said "the best" you should accept it or prove otherwise And indeed the prove should come from real tournaments because I never consider myself as "best online player", though I certainly am

Online and x-board play are absolutely different games. I would like compete and play the one where I am more experienced and skilled. I don't have anything to prove in online play. I can't force you to play in real ty's, but you also can't push me to play and prove anything in online games.

Respectfully,

Alex Moiseyev
best online checker player in the World
(World means - planet EARTH or more specifically - Kurnik website)

[Jay H]

Personally, I think the game would be better served by extending the ACF's structure of rules and accountability to serious online play, as the USCF and other groups have done with reasonable success. Since online play is pretty much synonymous with one-minute play, perhaps it would make more sense to form a Blitz Checkers Association, with some sort of challenge and reporting system to maintain ratings. But I don't think any games faster than 10/0 should be ACF rated, under any circumstances.

Emphasis added by Jay H

[charles clodfelter]

I am sure there are enough people to donate toward such a live event take place at one location and time for convenience of players to attend, and have travel expenses for those that feel qualified but cannot afford.

I do not know anybody that would want to pay and see such a momentous occasion take place with a monitor and keyboard between players.

I say lets get this event going and see if it flies or dies.