Checker Problem Composing Contest #3

[Bill Salot]

The third unofficial world championship checker problem composing contest has been active for a week now, but the votes are trickling in rather slowly.

Did you overlook the diagrammed contest problems on the cover page?

Couldn't you find the "Go to Contest Page" button?

Isn't the link working for you?

Are the contests too frequent?

Are any of the problems flawed?

Do the problems not suit your taste?

Are there too many problems for you to judge?

Are you wasting time trying to solve them?

Are you losing interest?

Is anything else keeping you from voting?

Bill Salot

[Eric Strange]

The third unofficial world championship checker problem composing contest has been active for a week now, but the votes are trickling in rather slowly.

Did you overlook the diagrammed contest problems on the cover page? No

Couldn't you find the "Go to Contest Page" button? Yes I found it

Isn't the link working for you? The link is working

Are the contests too frequent? I think they are a little too frequent.

Are any of the problems flawed? No, but I think that there have been too many published game play to enter anything in the contest that is worth studying. Most problems I see claim to be, say whites win, when white is 1 to 2 pieces up.

Do the problems not suit your taste? Some are good so far but I do not think many people are submitting their best quality work.

Are there too many problems for you to judge? no

Are you wasting time trying to solve them? no

Are you losing interest? not really, this needs to be more glorified for people to take better interest.

Is anything else keeping you from voting? I personally have voted every single time. I guarantee I am busier than most.

Bill Salot

[Chexhero]

I agree with Eric that it be better if the contest was a little more glorified and special. I noticed that the last two contests have been back to back pretty much? Perhaps space contests out and present a bigger prize for winning.

The contest itself is a good idea and I have participated in voting.

[Bill Salot]

Thanks to the several who have voted since my above message of concern.

And thanks to Eric and Joe for their prompt and constructive responses. It is interesting that both responses were from young, high level, internet stars.

1 - Eric thought that many composers are not showing their best problems. From my perspective, I believe the composers involved are really trying. They want to win. If the problems could be better, it is because many other composers are not entering any problems at all. The answer is we need more composers willing to enter good, original, unpublished problems. That is easier said than done.

2 - Both respondents felt the contests need to be more "glorified". Authoritative ideas for accomplishing that are needed. I am pursuing publicity up to my personal limits. Jason Solan has provided a fine, interactive contest site linked to the cover page. A few other web sites have posted the contests, and some folks have informally passed the word. But all of us together do not have the authority to make the contests "official". And no organization is going to "officially" recognize or sanction the contests if very few of their members are participating as composers.

3 - Both respondents suggested the contests might be enhanced by holding them less frequently (fewer, but bigger). I can see both pros and cons to this. It might be an incentive for some better composers to join in. It might be a disincentive to more prolific composers by throttling their enthusiasm. Currently the contest frequency is governed by the frequency of contest entries received. I would like to learn the views of others on whether a fixed or maximum contest frequency should be established..

4 - Joe suggested offering a bigger prize than the "unofficial" title and the informal recognition that accompanies it. I earlier received an off-line letter from a gentleman personally offering a token gift to the winner of each contest. I declined, saying it was not worth his effort. On the other hand, if a significant cash prize were offered, I fear that some unscrupulous non-composers might be tempted to dig up ancient gems from obscure old publications and enter them as their own unpublished originals for the purpose of stealing the money. It is difficult enough controlling unintentional plagiarism without rewarding it.

The points raised were good ones. I would appreciate advice on how, or whether, to pursue them further.

Bill Salot

[Eric Strange]

Thanks to the several who have voted since my above message of concern.

And thanks to Eric and Joe for their prompt and constructive responses. It is interesting that both responses were from young, high level, internet stars.

1 - Eric thought that many composers are not showing their best problems. From my perspective, I believe the composers involved are really trying. They want to win. If the problems could be better, it is because many other composers are not entering any problems at all. The answer is we need more composers willing to enter good, original, unpublished problems. That is easier said than done.

2 - Both respondents felt the contests need to be more "glorified". Authoritative ideas for accomplishing that are needed. I am pursuing publicity up to my personal limits. Jason Solan has provided a fine, interactive contest site linked to the cover page. A few other web sites have posted the contests, and some folks have informally passed the word. But all of us together do not have the authority to make the contests "official". And no organization is going to "officially" recognize or sanction the contests if very few of their members are participating as composers.

3 - Both respondents suggested the contests might be enhanced by holding them less frequently (fewer, but bigger). I can see both pros and cons to this. It might be an incentive for some better composers to join in. It might be a disincentive to more prolific composers by throttling their enthusiasm. Currently the contest frequency is governed by the frequency of contest entries received. I would like to learn the views of others on whether a fixed or maximum contest frequency should be established..

4 - Joe suggested offering a bigger prize than the "unofficial" title and the informal recognition that accompanies it. I earlier received an off-line letter from a gentleman personally offering a token gift to the winner of each contest. I declined, saying it was not worth his effort. On the other hand, if a significant cash prize were offered, I fear that some unscrupulous non-composers might be tempted to dig up ancient gems from obscure old publications and enter them as their own unpublished originals for the purpose of stealing the money. It is difficult enough controlling unintentional plagiarism without rewarding it.

The points raised were good ones. I would appreciate advice on how, or whether, to pursue them further.

Bill Salot

I just think with all the published games out there that there are very few original problems left that are very valuable. Question, how are games being tested for originality? do you have a database you're running them through or anything?
What is required for you to make it official instead of unofficial? I believe you should wait for at least 6-10 original problems before having a new one. As far as prizes go, you could send out a professional looking award certificate by email for the top 3 winners. This could be created on a computer for free. The winner could even print it out and frame it if they wanted to. A little recognition with a post in my forum and ACF forum congratulating the winner would also give some glory.
Just some ideas and thoughts that may help this out. I think a big issue is that we could spend 2 hours working out a neat problem only to find out later that it is already published. I believe this is an issue that is stopping a lot of people from submitting them. I also think that you should include a cook contest. Maybe players can submit their favorite variations of lines that throw their opponent off of published play. Once again it would be difficult to know what is published and what isn't. But with full games they can easily find out if it is in my database of over 100,000 games at http://icheckers.net. I may even be able to add a place to search endgame for your composing contents in the future.
I wont be able to promise this happens anytime soon though. I am in the middle of a full play site project, iphone app, android app, and re-designing my entire website. I hope my suggestions may help you a bit. Good luck in your ventures. When I get a few seconds to breathe I may try and compose a problem for the contest.

-Eric Strange

[Eric Strange]

Duplicate posting by accident, Mods please delete.

[Alex_Moiseyev]

Eric, real games are not composition and have nothing to do with composition. Such positions and solutions don't fit minimum requirements to composition, it's just a game.

Composition should have the only solution and economic final. Duplicate moves and alternative solutions are not allow.

[Eric Strange]

I know and understand that Alex. My suggestion was just to have something like that as a separate contest if people liked that idea. Just throwing ideas out there

[Alex_Moiseyev]

I know and understand that Alex. My suggestion was just to have something like that as a separate contest if people liked that idea. Just throwing ideas out there

PPP - practical problems and positions ! Title of my next book

[Bill Salot]

Eric,

Thanks a million for your constructive comments and candid concerns. We are on the same page. I want to pursue your ideas.

Your cogent thoughts on the difficulty of achieving originality and possible means of verifying it deserve special attention. I'll try to address them in a separate message. In the meantime, you are welcome to read some of my "canned" thoughts in the March 2012 issue of the Checker Maven at http://www.bobnewell.net/nucleus/

Regarding the contest, you asked, "What is required for you to make it official instead of unofficial?" It is up to the leadership of an organization to sanction a contest to make it "official". If I were the leader of such an organization, I would not favor the organization sanctioning contests in which its membership had shown no interest in competing. Since all of the contestants so far have been ACF members, the ACF may be ripe for taking that step. I discussed it briefly with Alan Millhone in Greensboro in February, and he seemed to look favorably on it. The contests that started in 1969 grew without bylaws into an international effort supported with publicity and member participation by the EDA, NZDA, and a Canadian organization. Time will tell.

You said, "I believe you should wait for at least 6-10 original problems before having a new contest". The objective in doing so would presumably be to make the contests more prestigious. I think that idea should not be taken in haste. Possible negatives might be that limited publicity for 6 months or a year my dampen any growing enthusiasm, prolific composers might get impatient, and the corps of judges might dwindle because of objections to the time required to review so many hard problems at once. However I do foresee the number of problems per contest increasing gradually as more composers join the fray. Time will tell.

You said, "As far as prizes go, you could send out a professional looking award certificate by e-mail for the top three winners. This could be created on a computer for free. The winners could even print it out and frame it." I love the idea. All I need is a volunteer to implement it for me. Time will tell.

You said, "A little recognition with a post in my forum and ACF forum congratulating the winner would also give some glory". I intend to do just that to the max as soon as somebody other than me wins a contest! It will happen. Time will tell.

The rest of my responses will follow in a separate message. Thanks for the great input.

By the way, everyone who has voted, please note how close the poll is running in Contest #3. At the moment two problems are tied for first and the third is only two votes behind! Time will tell.

Bill Salot

[Bill Salot]

Eric,

Here are my views on your other excellent questions about contest problems. I respect your perspective, shared by many, and summarized in your first sentence, which reads:

"I just think with all the published games out there that there are very few original problems left that are very valuable".

That sentence establishes three pregnant issues: 1) Problem linkage to games, 2) Problem originality, and 3) Problem value.

1) LINKAGE TO GAMES - There is a certain attraction to a problem that is said to have arisen in a game. The presumption is that it has practical value because it could arise again in one of your games. I have no objection to including such problems in problem composing contests. In fact, I already have. If I had enough entries of that type, I would be happy to periodically activate a contest consisting entirely of such problems. I do not share Alex M's views to the contrary. However I think it would be contest suicide to reject problem entries based on whether or not they can or cannot arise in a game.

As an aside, Tom Wiswell included with some of his published problems a comment to the effect that they arose in games. When I challenged his claims, he admitted that at least some of them were only based on themes that arose in games, but the final settings didn't. They were still fine problems and probably better than the original game position.

2) PROBLEM ORIGINALITY - You had several questions related to originality:

You asked, "How are games being tested for originality?" Eric, if a problem were entered with a game run-up, I would check the run-up in Churchill's Compilations (CC) to see if the problem's solution were published there. I checked Jim Loy's "Nocturne in Red and White" (Contest #2) and it passed that CC test. If a problem looked familiar enough, I would check it against Boland's books. I failed to do that with "Nocturne in Red and White". If during or after a contest, a problem is found by anyone to be previously published, as was "Nocturne in Red and White", it is by definition disqualified. It is to Jim Loy's credit that he pointed out its several prior publications as soon as he discovered them. His words are quoted in the discussion accompanying his problem in the archived Contest #2. This experience shows that the testing for the originality of current contest problems is limited, and the integrity of the contests mostly hangs on the honor system.

You also asked, "Do you have a data base you are running them through or anything?" No, it is obviously an area where I could use some help. You said, "I may be able to add a place to search endgames for your composing contests in the future". Eric, that would be most welcome whenever you can find time to do it.

You commented, "I think a big issue is that we could spend two hours working out a neat problem only to find out later that it is already published." Eric, I have no doubt that this happens, except my time frame is more like two weeks or two months. William Payne, 1756, once stole one of my compositions.

You continued, "I believe this is an issue that is stopping people from submitting them". Eric, if you are one of those people, there are probably others. All I can suggest is to submit them anyway and we can work out specifics from there. There are no career-limiting consequences if a problem has to be rejected; it may be fixable. I will work with you, not against you.

3) PROBLEM VALUE - From your perspective, I presume the value of problems is in direct proportion to the probability of being able to use it in important games. I respect that and would take the same view if I had aspirations toward tournament championships. But I equally respect those who play the game for fun and enjoy problems for little more than their entertainment value.

As far as I know, the only problem book consisting almost entirely of game problems, with run-ups included, was Lyman's, 1881. Herb Richter, who probably had the most extensive, indexed data base of games prior to the computer era, said that a large majority of games in Lyman's book were faulty, and that the problems therefore were not nearly as practical as some folks believed.

Tinsley was an avid sight solver of problems without regard to whether they arose in a game. But I don't think he ever composed one. To him, I presume the value of problems related to their ability to challenge his powers of visualization.

The voting in the contests so far demonstrates that the judges have differing values. I don't expect that to change.

My conclusions are that all sound, dual-free, unpublished problems that are original with the composer should be accepted without prejudice; and all composers should enter, without trepidation, any problem they feel meets the criteria with a chance of garnering votes.

Eric, your last suggestion addressed the "value" issue head-on. you said, "I also believe that you should include a cook contest. Maybe players can submit their favorite variations of lines that throw their opponents off of published play". I have no objection. There is no doubt that many players would put such information near the top of their lists of high value items. But if the variations are truly unpublished and effective, who would be willing to publicly divulge them? The contest might starve for lack of entries.

I appreciate the sentiments in the last paragraph of your message. They made me feel real good!

Bill Salot

[Bill Salot]

We are into the final week of voting for problems in Contest #3.

If you have been procrastinating or have forgotten, this is your reminder to go to the contest page before it is too late to vote.

Even if you have voted, check out which one is in the lead.

The contest page is at:

http://www.usacheckers.com/problems/show_contest.php

Bill Salot

[Bill Salot]

Heading into the final weekend of voting in Contest #3. More than 30 have voted. My fears were groundless.

Did you notice how incredibly close this contest is?

Bill Salot

[Bill Salot]

Yes, John, go to the top of the "Contest Page", and click on the previous contest archives.
Bill Salot

[Bill Salot]

PLEASE GO TO THE CONTEST PAGE FOR THE WINNERS OF CONTEST #3 AND THE CO-RECIPIENTS OF LATEST UNOFFICIAL WORLD CHAMPION CHECKER PROBLEM COMPOSING TITLE. They will reign until the close of the next contest. Congratulations are in order.
Bill Salot