What's the best?

[AKA]

My screen name for Kurnik is Immaster973, i used to have this same screen name for pogo but it got blocked, why are you asking anyways, what's yours?

matisyahu

[Patrick Parker]

without the programs using their opening books
maybe kingsrow and cake fair better
but with 1 million move opening book nemesis is hard to beat

[CheckersStrongplayer]

yes it is and it would be almost impossible to beat it, ok Igo i got it

[Martin Fierz]

without the programs using their opening books
maybe kingsrow and cake fair better
but with 1 million move opening book nemesis is hard to beat

that's exactly what i wrote
by the way, my full book now has 2.2 million opening moves...

cheers
martin

[CheckersStrongplayer]

it does? is this a new update that i haven't found about?

[Ed Gilbert]

without the programs using their opening books
maybe kingsrow and cake fair better
but with 1 million move opening book nemesis is hard to beat

I agree that any of the programs that have large opening books are very hard to beat. One point about the Nemesis opening book -- IIRC the 1 million positions you mentioned (actually it says 1.2M at the Nemesis web site) is the count of positions + colors-reversed positions, so the actual number of positions stored is 600K. The majority of these colors-reversed book positions are unreachable in a legal checkers game. In the KingsRow opening book only 1.3% of all the positions have colors-reversed equivalents also in the book, and no effort was made to avoid or exclude these equivalents in building it. This indicates to me that doing book lookups on colors-reversed equivalents adds almost no value. I think Murray agrees with this, and that he advertised the product this way in response to WCC's double-counting their book positions.

-- Ed

[Kolsz]

Good topic! Very useful :)

[CheckersStrongplayer]

Yes, that's why i made this topic to solve questions that i've been asking myself for a while, so Nemesis could probably beat Cake and KingsRow without their books

[Gene Lindsay]

Yes, Nemisis could probably beat Cake and Kingsrow if you turned off their opening books and left Nemisis's opening book on. But if you turned Nemisis's opening book off as well, they both would clobber Nemisis. They both search about twice as deep on my computer as Nemisis at 1 minute a move.


Gene Lindsay

[Gene Lindsay]

Yes, Nemisis could probably beat Cake and Kingsrow if you turned off their opening books and left Nemisis's opening book on. But if you turned Nemisis's opening book off as well, they both would clobber Nemisis. They both search almost twice as deep on my computer as Nemisis at 1 minute a move.


Gene Lindsay

[CheckersStrongplayer]

Without it's book it's like a piece of trash against Cake and KingsRow, very interesting Why did you post that twice Gene?

[Patrick Parker]

i think that just happens on boards like this sometimes

[CheckersStrongplayer]

like what?

[Patrick Parker]

message boards
like u click send but it looks like it doesnt send
so u resend.......if this doesnt make sense ...then it just never happened
to you.....used to happen to me at bbs all the time

[CheckersStrongplayer]

ohhh yea, that has happened to me too before as well