Game 14 of WCC - Ryan's loss to Hellman - is made doubly famous by virtue of the fact that Sam Cohen had previously defeated Graham Davies with precisely the same attack in 1935. (Ryan's comments on his resignation given in CCS on Page 61 are quite surreal by the way!)
Make that triply famous, as in 1933 Cohen also beat J. Thorpe with precisely the same attack! - published on Page 29 of ... Ryan's June 1933 New Checkergram!
Amazing!
Really Old!
-
Richard Pask
- Posts: 323
- Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:15 pm
- What do you like about checkers?: Much!
-
tgf
- Posts: 428
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:57 pm
- What do you like about checkers?: I like sharing my checkers knowledge
- Location: Hollywood, Florida
- Contact:
Re: Really Old!
The communication on this forum is strange, once in a while someone posts something and it just sits there unresponded, which probably discourages posters from posting again.
Of course it is hard to make sense of the below post, with all the references one can not validate, kind of "you need to have all those materials to understand it" elitism.
Of course it is hard to make sense of the below post, with all the references one can not validate, kind of "you need to have all those materials to understand it" elitism.
Richard Pask wrote:Game 14 of WCC [Show it] - Ryan's loss to Hellman - is made doubly famous by virtue of the fact that Sam Cohen had previously defeated Graham Davies [Show it] with precisely the same attack in 1935. (Ryan's comments on his resignation given in CCS on Page 61 [Show it] are quite surreal by the way!)
Make that triply famous, as in 1933 Cohen also beat J. Thorpe with precisely the same attack! - published on Page 29 of ... Ryan's June 1933 New Checkergram! [Show it]
Amazing!
-
Richard Pask
- Posts: 323
- Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:15 pm
- What do you like about checkers?: Much!
Re: Really Old!
WCC refers to World Championship Checkers
CCS refers to Championship Checkers Simplified
For the game itself, see Basic Checkers 10-14 24-20 6-10 Note J
Given the effort I have put in - with enormous thanks to Bob Newell - to making my books available to all, effectively for free, including some for absolute beginners, I am shocked to find myself described as elitist! I truly despair.
CCS refers to Championship Checkers Simplified
For the game itself, see Basic Checkers 10-14 24-20 6-10 Note J
Given the effort I have put in - with enormous thanks to Bob Newell - to making my books available to all, effectively for free, including some for absolute beginners, I am shocked to find myself described as elitist! I truly despair.
-
tgf
- Posts: 428
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:57 pm
- What do you like about checkers?: I like sharing my checkers knowledge
- Location: Hollywood, Florida
- Contact:
Re: Really Old!
Hi Richard,
They say a picture is worth a thousands words. Your post should have started with a diagram at the moment of the attack and hopefully a few moves so that those without the books could follow.
I showed four places where such visual aid (or links) could have been placed, instead I found out that CCS is an abbreviation for the Championship Checkers Simplified
book and not the name of the company I used to work for (Custom Control Sensors), but no closer to learn which tactical idea you invited us to admire.
They say a picture is worth a thousands words. Your post should have started with a diagram at the moment of the attack and hopefully a few moves so that those without the books could follow.
I showed four places where such visual aid (or links) could have been placed, instead I found out that CCS is an abbreviation for the Championship Checkers Simplified
book and not the name of the company I used to work for (Custom Control Sensors), but no closer to learn which tactical idea you invited us to admire.
-
williamdocherty
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:54 pm
- What do you like about checkers?: Winning
Re: Really Old!
Hi to all
With respect to both concerned, and the checker world truly recognizes the effort put in by you guys, I must insist on the following...in any area of our lives, digging and finding is much more rewarding than receiving without effort...
Thanks again for your contributions to our game.
William
With respect to both concerned, and the checker world truly recognizes the effort put in by you guys, I must insist on the following...in any area of our lives, digging and finding is much more rewarding than receiving without effort...
Thanks again for your contributions to our game.
William
-
Richard Pask
- Posts: 323
- Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:15 pm
- What do you like about checkers?: Much!
Re: Really Old!
Dear William,
Thank you for your kind words.
Hi TGF. Having read your follow-up post I can now see where we have our wires completely crossed. The point of my original post was not to bring out a particular tactical point or device. It was/is as follows:
What was remarkable about the game Ryan lost to Hellman in their 1949 WCM was that it had been published previously, move-for-move. To be specific, Sam Cohen had defeated Graham Davies; the game appearing in the final issue of Derek Oldbury's A Game Of Draughts. What was astonishing, to me, was to discover that Cohen had previously defeated another player, move-for-move, with the same coup and that this too had been published. In fact, it had been published in Ryan's own magazine! [This is not, of course, in any way intended as a slight on Willie Ryan: a great play and author who I very much admire.]
By definition, all of the sources: World Championship Checkers, Championship Checkers Simplified, A Game Of Draughts, The New Checkergram and Basic Checkers contain precisely the same play, but in this instance the play is not the thing - although clearly the coup itself is most deceptive - it is the fact of pre-publication. Although, by necessity, I cited references in my original post, the point I am making does not require the reader to possess any of these references. Hopefully this has clarified things; it will be my last contribution regarding this particular item.
Thank you for your kind words.
Hi TGF. Having read your follow-up post I can now see where we have our wires completely crossed. The point of my original post was not to bring out a particular tactical point or device. It was/is as follows:
What was remarkable about the game Ryan lost to Hellman in their 1949 WCM was that it had been published previously, move-for-move. To be specific, Sam Cohen had defeated Graham Davies; the game appearing in the final issue of Derek Oldbury's A Game Of Draughts. What was astonishing, to me, was to discover that Cohen had previously defeated another player, move-for-move, with the same coup and that this too had been published. In fact, it had been published in Ryan's own magazine! [This is not, of course, in any way intended as a slight on Willie Ryan: a great play and author who I very much admire.]
By definition, all of the sources: World Championship Checkers, Championship Checkers Simplified, A Game Of Draughts, The New Checkergram and Basic Checkers contain precisely the same play, but in this instance the play is not the thing - although clearly the coup itself is most deceptive - it is the fact of pre-publication. Although, by necessity, I cited references in my original post, the point I am making does not require the reader to possess any of these references. Hopefully this has clarified things; it will be my last contribution regarding this particular item.
-
tgf
- Posts: 428
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:57 pm
- What do you like about checkers?: I like sharing my checkers knowledge
- Location: Hollywood, Florida
- Contact:
Re: Really Old!
I do not have any of the named books or WCC (the DOS version had not been used in good 20 years), but I have Hellman-Ryan 1949 match games, and Ryan lost game 14 there.
It probably would not hurt to bring the match here for a review, http://checkersusa.com/books/html_games ... n-Ryan.htm
It probably would not hurt to bring the match here for a review, http://checkersusa.com/books/html_games ... n-Ryan.htm
-
tgf
- Posts: 428
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:57 pm
- What do you like about checkers?: I like sharing my checkers knowledge
- Location: Hollywood, Florida
- Contact:
Re: Really Old!
It was a surprise to learn my comment was taken as an accusation, I have nothing but admiration for Mr. Pask, who has done so much for the game.
Perhaps it was the direct manner I use to identify problems, Richard already explained he was pursuing a different thought - people do not remember their own writings,
He gave references - but I could not validate them not having those books.
One of the library's purposes was reference and validation, where one could say "book X, page Y, Position Z", etc., with everyone's access to exactly the same source.
Perhaps it was the direct manner I use to identify problems, Richard already explained he was pursuing a different thought - people do not remember their own writings,
He gave references - but I could not validate them not having those books.
One of the library's purposes was reference and validation, where one could say "book X, page Y, Position Z", etc., with everyone's access to exactly the same source.