"Ratings Importance Maybe Blown Out of Proportion"

[Mr. Checkers]

Since only a small handful (less than 3% of the 500 plus ACF menbers) of the ACF membership are expressing any concern about them. And of those that are voicing concern their situations could easily be handled and dealt with on an individual basis within the current framework of the ACF.

[Michael Holmes]

Ms. Becky, this may be the first time I am replying to one of your statements directly (possibly indirectly too).

There are many checkerists that are ACF members that have complained about the ratings issue. Perhaps you have seen some of them on the web site. However, I have heard many at tournaments and at clubs that you have not and I think that these members must also be considered. The fact is that some don't like it but may not complain either and others do but not everyone hears them.

The ACF is aware of the issue and much to their credit they have fixed the many long-standing problems and I think they have done much fine tuning too. This is one category that has been fixed and just needs a little fine tuning--but for everyone and not just for those who write letters, convey their feelings at a tourney or club meeting, or post something on the internet.

I find myself volunteering to another project for the ACF but very willingly as I think their leadership has made very modest efforts to propel the ACF to the next millennium.

Michael Holmes

[Mr. Checkers]

Thank you Michael for sharing your thoughts and insights concerning this subject. I will amend my percentage estimate from 3% to 8% knowing that only a very small number of players attend the tournaments and checker clubs--and many of those are the same people. One of the problems in reading Forum postings is that one would think (from the way that they are worded) that those posting are speaking for the majority of the ACF members; when in reality they are only speaking for a very small handful of members that have their own aggenda, which only benefits their self centered interests in our game. It is my opinion that most checker players play for only the enjoyment that one experiences in doing so and rating are the furthest thing from their minds. And Michael thank you for your willingness to assist the ACF. Many have come before you with that ideal in mind, but most have unfortunately faded away into the sunset.

[bazkitcase5]

they must be pretty important seeing how the ACF has decided to use ratings as a guide for playing players in the correct division for this years National tournament

so few may be speaking, what what is said and decided impacts many many more

the biggest problem, as I mentioned in another thread, is the fast improving skill of the younger players, which is causing a major kink in the ratings

there r many examples, but maybe the most obvious at this time is ryan pronk, who is rated a little above 2100, but is rapidly approaching the skill level of a master player - but yet our ratings guide says 2300+ is master level? can u explain to me how that makes sense? our system has a tendancy to "drag" a couple of years behind, which is fine and dandy for most players who are not improving at a rapid pace, but what about those that are?

to me personally, its not that its that big of an issue, but if we really want to use ratings as a guide to place players in the correct division, then they need to be correct, which in my mind, means something needs to be changed - I highly support those doing the WCDF ratings list and from what I can tell, it is looking much more accurate than our own system

[Mr. Checkers]

Clayton thank you for sharing your thoughts concerning this matter. As I mentioned earlier--only a small handful of ACF members ever attend the checker tournaments and that number is getting to be less ever year. Therefore ratings are only of concern to that small minority of the ACF members. And I also mentioned that most players play for the enjoyment that they reap in doing so--and rating are not of importance to them. There is absolutely no need to have 500 ACF members rated. It may be needed at the upper levels for pairings purposes. In any case there is no ratings system that is going to be acceptible to everyone concerned. Plus ratings are easily manipulated as we all are aware of. Also rating have never kept players with clout from playing in whatever division they wanted--.

[Patrick Parker]

but if we really want to use ratings as a guide to place players in the correct division, then they need to be correct, which in my mind

i totally agree with this.....lets do this all the time when we can
lets inforce it......we need to, its fair....if someone wants to throw games to knock down their rating so they can play in minors next time
i simply ask them to throw the games to me

Also rating have never kept players with clout from playing in whatever division they wanted--.

thats true and i hope it changes
its disapointing .........i know ive been disapointed and im not the only one....buts its no biggie to me

you say ratings only concerns small % of people that actually show up and play........how many people are in the acf but never play in tournaments?

i think ratings are great.....a way to set goals, compare yourself with others, and see your own progress......these points cant be disputed because they are personal goals.....there is no greater good issue here .....as to say whether improvement is better than having a rating....we arent little kids and this isnt t-ball....we can handle knowing the score......this is a competitive game...its ok...i think we can handle it...atleast i can......and if u dont play in tournaments i dont see how this is an important issue....ms becky are you speaking for others?
im just trying to understand

i wish there was a better way we could all understand the current system...how are gaming websites formulas different than the ones we use? does chess use a different system? what all is out there?
i think we have a general lack of information here.....
i know i dont know how it works and it confuses me.......

[Mr. Checkers]

Patrick of the 500 plus current ACF members only a very very small percent of those actually attend any checker tournament--. And in many cases it is the same people playing in many of those tournaments i.e. Alex, Alan, Richard etc. etc.. Attendance at almost all the checker tournaments has dropped dramatically over the past 10 years for several different reasons.

[Michael Holmes]

Thank you Michael for sharing your thoughts and insights concerning this subject. I will amend my percentage estimate from 3% to 8% knowing that only a very small number of players attend the tournaments and checker clubs--and many of those are the same people. One of the problems in reading Forum postings is that one would think (from the way that they are worded) that those posting are speaking for the majority of the ACF members; when in reality they are only speaking for a very small handful of members that have their own aggenda, which only benefits their self centered interests in our game. It is my opinion that most checker players play for only the enjoyment that one experiences in doing so and rating are the furthest thing from their minds. And Michael thank you for your willingness to assist the ACF. Many have come before you with that ideal in mind, but most have faded away into the sunset.

Ms. Becky, your strong opinions lack factual data. Most importantly, your point of view is righteous and free of error--well, probably not but you may want to know that just because you say the same thing repeatedly it does not make those statements true.

There must be a reason for your sarcasm and belittling remarks but I have yet to find such people persuasive at all.

[Mr. Checkers]

Michael I am only expressing my point of view (I am not asking anyone to agree or disagree with my views)and the facts that I have presented here speak for themselves. Attendance at all checker tournament is down considerably--true. Only a minority of players are concerned about their ratings--true. Applied knowledge makes better checker players; not ratings--true. A majority of the ACF players play only for the enjoyment of playing the game--true, which is one reason why they don't attend tournaments--true again. No sarcasm or belittling of anything or anyone is intended. I am sorry if you have taken it in that way.

[Michael Holmes]

Michael I am only expressing my point of view (I am not asking anyone to agree or disagree with my views)and the facts that I have presented here speak for themselves. Attendance at all checker tournament is down considerably--true. Only a minority of players are concerned about their ratings--true. Applied knowledge makes better checker players; not ratings--true. A majority of the ACF players play only for the enjoyment of playing the game--true, [/size]which is one reason why they don't attend tournaments--true again. No sarcasm or belittling of anything or anyone is intended. I am sorry if you have taken it in that way.

The size of the tournaments in TN (Strawberry and State) has improved since I have started playing in them so I know you are wrong about all tournaments have less attendance. The IL tourney seems to have larger numbers too than when I first started playing there in 2001.

You also said "Only a minority of players are concerned about their ratings--ture"...

And it is true because you say it is true and you have facts to back this up.....no it is not true and of course you do not have facts to back you opinion up.

People play only for the enjoyment. I doubt you have asked everyone this! The fact is that there are different reasons why people enjoy the game and a common reason is that people are competitive. Affordability, time constraints, and lack of transportation are the biggest reasons why ACF members do not play in tournaments.

However, if you wish to send a poll to everyone's house that is a member of the ACF please do so. At least then you would have some factual data. I comment on the data from the players comments to me....many of which were made when you were not there!
Michael

[Mr. Checkers]

Michael for the few tournaments that have increased in attendance many more have not been that fortunate. The Pa. State Checker Tournament, which is being played as I speak once had 30-35 of the top players in the country in attendance on a regular basis. Tony told me two days ago that he expected to have 8-10 in attendance today. Since only a few ACF members post here a poll of any kind would not be representative of the ACF membership. Every month we receive over a hundred pieces of correspondence from ACF members; plus we are in contact via email, MSN Messenger, etc. with many others on a regular basis, so from those we pretty well know what the climate is in the ACF concerning any issue.

[Patrick Parker]

gas prices affecting tournaments now....i think money is the issue
but thats always an issue
also
the national tournament hoppin around its dates can affect some tournaments attendance

i think more centralized geographically tournaments need to be held
i think tenn has so many people because of location
illinois maybe the same thing there also
anyone in the deep south...everything is far away
so to me a tournament help in any near by state is what ima go for
i imagine same for other people as well.....and if nothing in near them
they wont go.........also....alot of people view the lack of money in our game as the reason why they wont show up to play i dont know whether this is true or not but it has to be to some degree ....not sayin me just sayin im sure why some people are deterred from coming

[Mr. Checkers]

Patrick you are 100% correct in your observations. Not that long ago it was suggested that people be given gas vouchers, so that they could attend a checker tournaments in their area. I don't know what ever happened to that idea, but it was food for thought.

[Michael Holmes]

Michael for the few tournaments that have increased in attendance many more have not been that fortunate. Since only a few ACF members post here a poll of any kind would not be representative of the ACF membership. Every month we receive over a hundred pieces of correspondence from ACF members; plus we are in contact via email, MSN Messenger, etc. with many others on a regular basis, so from those we pretty well know what the climate is in the ACF concerning any issue.

You are making my point quite clear! At first you said all tournaments have less attendance and now a few have increased. And the poll I suggested was mail being sent to the ACF members

[Mr. Checkers]

Michael obviously you have your viewpoints and you can not respect nor accept the fact that others have viewpoints that differ from yours. So I see no need in carrying on this discussion any further with you. We always welcome different viewpoints being put forth here on the ACF Forum, because they challenge your thinking and bring forth new insights, new ideas, new thoughts and many other ways of looking at an issue (food for thought). Please have a nice day.