Old 14th Draw or Loss???

[Alex_Moiseyev]

Albert Tucker "pet line" He was first who introduced this in "serious Internet play" some years ago. You should better ask him.

Josh, I think it is a draw, but red has significant difficulties if white met it correctly. In other hands, if white doesn't know what to do - red has winning chances here.

Maybe programmers help us with final verdict ?

Alex

[Patrick Parker]

i believe this line is in dorans old 14th
but as to whether its a draw or not.....?

[Ed Gilbert]

Kingsrow thinks its a draw.

[Ingo_Zachos]

Can somone tell me if this draws or losses?

11-15 23-19 8-11 22-17 4-8 25-22 9-13 27-23 5-9 23-18 9-14 18-9 12-16 19-12 15-18 22-15 13-22 10-19 24-15 6-22

White To Move

I think you mean
1. 11-15 23-19
2. 8-11 22-17
3. 4-8 25-22
4. 9-13 27-23
5. 5-9 23-18
6. 9-14 18x9
7. 12-16 19x12
8. 15-18 22x15
9. 13x22 26x17 (u forgot that!)
10. 10x19 24x15
11. 6x22


A clue:

Plz make it a custom to add move numbers to your notation. In that way you can be sure not to "skip" a move...

It is indeed Doran's Old 14 th, Var. 12, p. 6with the continuation:
11. ... 15-10A
12. 7x14 30-26
13. 14-18 26x17
14. 11-15 17-14
15. 8-11 21-17
16. 18-22 31-26
17. 22x31 32-27
drawn, and a game J. Jackson - J. Smith is quotet, without mentioning of either the source or the site, match or tournament in which it was played.

I found that Anderson only knows 7. 15-18 also given as drawn.
And a database research shows it to be A. Jackson- J. Smith in their 1886 match at Spennymoor, game 16 (p. 204 in Gould's Matches) :

18. 31x24 28x10
19. 11-15 17-13B
20. 15-18 14-9
21. 2-7 10-6
22. 1x10 9-6
23. 7-11 6-2
24. 10-15 29-25
25. 18-23 25-21
26. 23-27 21-17
27. 27-32 17-14
28. 11-16 14-10
29. 16-20 10-7
30. 3x10 2-7 drawn

A: A game Smith, F.F. - Jordan, A., English Tournament 1909, saw another approach, this time with more success:
11. ... 30-26
12. 11x18 26x17
13. 18-22 17-14
14. 8-11 21-17
15. 11-16 32-27
16. 16-19 17-13
17. 1-5 27-24
18. 19-23 24-19
19. 23-26 19-15
20. 26-30 15-10
21. 7-11 13-9
22. 30-25 9-6!!
23. 2x18 31-26
24. 22x31 29x8
and White won.

B:
In J. Smith- J.P. Reed, match at South Shields 1887, game 12 (Gould's Matches p. 209), the following was played:

19. ... 29-25
20. 15-18 14-9
21. 18-23 25-22
22. 23-26 22-18
23. 1-5 18-14
24. 26-31 10-6
25. 3-7 6-1
26. 7-10 14x7
27. 5x21 7-3
28. 21-25
drawn.

So the old masters already knew that in the romantic GAYP area, and it was tested and drawn on two occasions, but failed the test once.
All in all not a very convincing performance...

I hope that these references will help you, Joshua.

Greetinx from Dortmund at midnight,

Ingo Zachos

[jimloy]

Here are a few published games, in case anyone is interested:

[Event "1886 match, game 16"]
[Black "Jackson,A"]
[White "Smith,J"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
11-15 22-17 8-11 23-19 4-8 25-22 9-13 27-23 5-9 23-18 12-16 19x12 9-14 18x9 15-18 22x15 13x22 26x17 10x19 24x15 6x22 15-10 7x14 30-26 14-18 26x17 11-15 17-14 8-11 21-17 18-22 31-26 22x31 32-27 31x24 28x10 11-15 17-13 15-18 14-9 2-7 10-6 1x10 9-6 7-11 6-2 10-15 29-25 18-23 25-21 23-27 21-17 27-32 17-14 11-16 14-10 16-20 10-7 3x10 2-7 1/2-1/2

[Event "1887 match, game 12"]
[Black "Smith,J"]
[White "Reed,JP"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
11-15 23-19 8-11 22-17 4-8 25-22 9-13 27-23 5-9 23-18 9-14 18x9 12-16 19x12 15-18 22x15 13x22 26x17 10x19 24x15 6x22 15-10 7x14 30-26 14-18 26x17 11-15 17-14 8-11 21-17 18-22 31-26 22x31 32-27 31x24 28x10 11-15 29-25 15-18 14-9 18-23 25-22 23-26 22-18 1-5 18-14 26-31 10-6 3-7 6-1 7-10 14x7 5x21 7-3 21-25 1/2-1/2

[Event "English Tourney 1909"]
[Black "Smith,FF"]
[White "Jordan,A"]
[Result "0-1"]
11-15 23-19 8-11 22-17 4-8 25-22 9-13 27-23 5-9 23-18 9-14 18x9 12-16 19x12 15-18 22x15 10x19 24x15 13x22 26x17 6x22 30-26 11x18 26x17 18-22 17-14 8-11 21-17 11-16 32-27 16-19 17-13 1-5 27-24 19-23 24-19 23-26 19-15 26-30 15-10 7-11 13-9 30-25 9-6 2x18 31-26 22x31 29x8 0-1

But I see that someone else beat me to these games. Oh well.