Rating Report of WCDF commitee available!

[Alex_Moiseyev]

If you were Captain for team USA

If I were captain of USA team, I would resign from this position.

Alex

[mday]

According to WCDF Ratings list, these should be players chosen:

USA
1) Moiseyev
2) Hallett
3) Bruch
4) Beckwith
5) Cowie
6) Morrison
7) Keen
Burton
9) Schwartz
10) Laverty
Alt) Webster
Alt) Lowder

World
1) King
2) Docherty
3) Watson
4) Francis
5) Cronin
6) Edwards
7) Devlin
G.Miller
9) Lorde
10) Allicock
Alt) Walcott
Alt) Grant

Something is seriously wrong in the ratings if both Durdyevs are not in the top 12 outside of the USA.

[rich beckwith]

There are simple explanations (or partial explanations) for some of the anomalies that have been pointed out in the last few pages....

1) WCDF reports are published using cutoffs of June and December (I think), so Stonehaven events were not included in this last report(including Durdyevs' results), nor was recent Southern.

2) Gene Lindsay pointed out to me 4 specific events where he performed well that were not rated. One was 2006 Southern (past deadline, but will be on next report), one was District 6 which he won (I will send in these results), and the other two were NC events, whose cross-tables are available from nccheckers.org. Perhaps there are other recent tournaments that were not rated for whatever reason. The WCDF committee publishes which events were rated to help determine what events have slipped through the cracks.

Congrats to the Euros for their outstanding play in the Ryder Cup!

[Ingo_Zachos]

Yes, there is something seriously wrong, mday

the computer does not share your preference!

His preference is based upon results, your preference is based upon your own opinion, nothing more.

I met both Michael Holmes and the Durdyevs (BTW: they r more then just two brothers...) and I also think they have more potential then the rating shows.
Michael has a great positional understanding that I wish I could posses, and Baghtiyar and Mustafa r great tacticians and ambitious players, that will certainly make it to the Top Ten and the Grandmaster title sooner or later (Mustafa lacked one norm, and if I am not wrong, he already scored the final one at the British Open).

Michaels citicism is more founded, as he is obviously right:
We did not get all tournament tables, and some of his successes were not calculated.
Here he is right, and I apologize to him, as he obviously suffered from that setback, but if you see, we provided a list of the rated events on our report.
Just look if the ty's you played r included.
We still accept every new crosstable, but we had to finish our work and so decided to publish the list, although we knew some events were still missing.
But if we had waited for all events to be reported, I guess we would have waited forever...
Now that people get affected by our rating, we hope that the players themselves will help us and report all results(crosstables) they know.
You can sent any crosstable that we don't have to me or any other member of the committee at every time.

I believe a "USA vs. World" selection based upon our list looks good, and may be there r more then 12 players that would deserve to be in such a team, but I wonder if you, "mday", would have selected a better team without the assistance of our list.
Most likely you would forget more then just 2 outstanding players on each side.
Do you remember the discussion about the teams last year ?
Alex still does, and I think that is why he would not accept the role as nominating captain.
How bitter was it discussed which players r worthy and why they r worthy to play in the US team (or not), and I know that some players in the Irish & British team were also upset that they were not considered (I also understood there was a controversy in Barbados regarding the issue of nominating their team that nearly defeated the USA in 2004).
The rating list, used with wisdom and hindsight, is a clear-cut, intersubjective and useful tool to solve such problems in the next years.
Of course, border cases will always happen...

But one thing, I am sure, will never happen:

that a player that does not even reveal his real name will nominate any team.

Just like Bertrand Ruissel said:
"If those, who do not want to tell a secret could at least shut up!"

Greetinx from Old Europe,

Ingo Zachos


P.S:

Tommy, I just have no news on the topic, but if I have I will tell you.
At the moment I am more busy with the German Open that will be played next weekend.

[mday]

mday is short for Michael Daily, which was my ACF nickname at one time, which is my name. mday is just shorter to type on each log in.

Why don't you shut up kiddo? Your input on the forum is nothing but negative (lol) input. A so-called "Master" player should set a better example, eh?

And finaly, get a life, because all it consists of is making fraud rating lists and giving yourself fake master status.

[Mr. Checkers]

Meow!!, Meow!! Lets calm down fellows and enjoy this nice day!! "Inky"

[tommyc]

Thank you Ingo..........you know your douing a thankless job but i feel you can cope very well ...........G/L in the German!....

[Gene Lindsay]

Hi everyone, I have been gone since my last post and just returned last night. After reading your posts, I think to support what Michael and Alex have said, here are my results with non USA players whom I have played more than once( except fot Ron King who has admittedly kicked my tail).
Against Hugh Devlin 1 win no losses 5 drs George Miller 4 wins 1 loss 1 dr Jack Francis 5 wins 1 loss 4 dr John Walcott 2 wins 2 losses 6 drs( I won at 3-move he won at GAYP) Fred Buckby 1 win no losses 3 drs Myles Hannigan 3 wins no losses 1 dr Earl Morrison 5 wins 2 losses 15 drs Leroy Adams 8 drs Pat McCarthy no wins 1 loss 3 drs Patricia Breen 1 win no losses 3 drs David Harwood 2 wins 1loss and 1dr. Gee if I weren't from the USA I would probably be a GM. Also on the rating I think(I will check to make sure) I have played in 14 tys the last 2 years from sept 1 2004 thru sept 1 2006 I finished in the top 3 in 7 of those events and not one was used in the WCDF rating and 6 of the other 7 tys were turned in. To make the ratings meaningful you have to use all the tys or specify in advance which will be used. Also as Alex said you also have to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. As for the brothers from Turk. bring them over and see how they do in the USA 3 move ty and for those of you who doubt how tough it is, I say come and see for yourself. And for those of you who doubt my ability, I am open to a stake match for a reasonable sum with the loser paying the expenses for the one who travels.


Gene Lindsay

[Gene Lindsay]

On the world vs usa proposed teams, before picking teams you would need to know if it will be GAYP or 3-move. If it is 3-move Ron King is the only one from Barbados I would pick if I were the world team captain. If it was a GAYP match at least half the team should be from Barbados. This is why I think we need different ratings for 3-move and GAYP.

Gene Lindsay

[mday]

And for those of you who doubt my ability, I am open to a stake match for a reasonable sum with the loser paying the expenses for the one who travels.
Gene Lindsay

You are open to do this against anyone ?

[Gene Lindsay]

If you are saying even against Ron King or Alex, no. But if I am supposed to be the 82nd player in the world playing someone in the top 10 I think I should get odds. If you are serious and willing to put up the money for yourself or someone else, make a proposal and we will talk about. I also need to know who I am talking to.

Gene Lindsay

[Mr. Checkers]

M-Day and Gene--to keep things on the up and up I would be more than happy to hold the stakes for this match. Left handed or right handed one would have to choose M-Day (even though he is a dark horse participant) as the odds on favorite if such a match would ever materialize, which I seriously doubt.

[william]

Hello Everyone


All of this ratings talk, match talk is just going overboard.

firstly, Gene and Micheal , you must realise that you are both highly respected players in the world, but that what R.B said about delays for ratings input has to be acknowledged.

Furthermore , this system has barely got off the ground ,but thanks to much energy from a bunch of highly motivated guys ,it has finally taken off , but has not yet reached cruising speed, ie. I would prefer to play checkers for at least 2 more years then look at my ratings which would show a more realistic stand. as it also would for many others.

Finally ,I cannot agree with Alex on the point that USA would beat UK and IRE if we had the possibility ti put up our best team.

I would bet you a bottle of vodka against a bottle of wiskey that we would win by a large score.

Finally Finally I would like to reply to gene ,,,I would love to come over to USA for some tys as anyone would agree that the competeition is tough out there so i await the fight ticket .D o you want my full adress?

HAPPY PLAYING GUYS AND NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE

WILLIAM

[Gene Lindsay]

William I have never meet you but, your score with Alex in your match is impressive as I have played him many times. However I do think you need to come over here and play to appreciate the strenght of our players(I am not well off enough financially to afford to do what I want to do and pay someone else's expenses but maybe one day). I would like to come over and play in the British Open one day( I probably don't have enough brothers to win it though).
If the UK and Ire vs the USA was 5 on 5 match and the best players from both sides played, it would be a tough match but the USA would still win, but in my opinion as long as it is 10 against 10 it would not be close. But as I said that is my opinion and we all have one.

Gene Lindsay

[Ingo_Zachos]

...
This is why I think we need different ratings for 3-move and GAYP.

Gene Lindsay

here you r absolutely right, Gene.
Two different styles, but only one rating list.

On thew other hand, we had not all crosstables sent in, and with GAYP and 3 move rated seperately, this would have meant to have less reliable ratings for every player, as most players would have not made enough games to have a rating deviation less then 150 ("A" list"), and also, it would take more time (which we, like all checker players around the world, don't get paid for).

Our "solution" was to include both styles, but also to notice which event was GAYP and which 3 move, so that a later separation is still possible.
BTW: The ACF rating is also one rating for both styles.

The question of styles is also a very hard matter in title issues, as there r specialists for GAYP, but also many countries r GAYP dominated , so we "swallowed the toad" as they say here in Germany.

This is why the list, even with all events rated, must still be taken with a grain of salt.

I heard that you are checking the the list of your events with the list of the events we rated, and this is indeed a constructive way of helping us that we very much appreciate

So if you found out which events we missed, don't hasitate to report the crosstables to us if you have them, as the greatest problem of our rating is indeed , let me say, "incomplete informations" of some events. But let me assure you: we did rate every event we could get, as the trick in the Glicko sytem is: the more games you played, the more "stable" the rating!

If a result has not been reported to us it was not on pupose!


We, for instance, do not have the complete crosstable of the WCDF 2004 World Championships for Junoirs that was played in Barbados, and no results from Barbados since 2004, altough we know that they had at least two national tourneys since then.
Also a few US and Irish results r missing, we only know the winners or maybe the final points, but not the full crosstables.


To anyone:
Plz make sure that the crosstable with the final result, the round -per round pairing & results and the names of all (!) players will be sent to us, if you want to help us to do a better job in the future.

Greetinx from Dortmund, Germany

Ingo Zachos

P.S: I never doubted your ability and master status, Gene, and I would bet heavily on you if mday would really have the grit to play a match.