Mr. Victor Niederhoffer ....Reply from Alan Millhone

[Alan Millhone]

Hello forum readers:

Earlier tonight I received a SPEC-LIST of observations from Mr. Niederhoffer on the market and other investment related subjects. His last item contained his remarks on Checkers & Chess . I composed and sent him my reply to his article. He liked my reply and has asked me to post his comments and then post my reply back to him. He also requests that after I make the postings that forum readers are most welcome to post their comments. Mr. Niederhoffer has an excellent investment web site " DAILY SPECULATIONS " which also has a link to " Wiswell Proverbs". He is a true patron to the ACF our youth and the game of Checkers. Below I reply to his # 5 of his letter .

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Mr. Niederhoffer writes:

" I am convinced that training in Checkers is much better for children than Chess in that it prepares them better for the basic yes, no decisions of life that make up much of logic , electronics, and computers, and because it is simpler with a less confined rule base and has much more potential for generalization to the situations of life where attack versus defense, risk versus return, forward or backward, solidity Versus gaps ( the architecture of Checkers) , the rules of Checkers being to move forward unless a man is in front of you, then you jump if you can. It also has the virtue of not consuming so much time to become proficient now that it takes a football team and extensive technology and years of study to even become a competent player in Chess, as well as being much better for children in that it's much less life threatening to eat a Checker piece than a Chess piece.
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Dear Mr. Niederhoffer:

I agree and disagree with the Chair on # 5 on Checkers and Chess. Both games are played on the same board (almost) Chess squares are bigger on a regulation Chess board. Both games are both excellent mental sports. The late and great Dr. Marion F. Tinsley (probably one of the greatest Checker players who will ever live) started out in Chess while attending Ohio State University and gave it up for Checkers. He once remarked that Chess was like looking down a deep well and Checkers was like looking across an ocean. Several Chess Grandmasters began in the game of Checkers and gave it up as too difficult and too exacting and changed over to Chess.

Checkers is a much more unforgiving game as once you advance a piece there is no backing up that piece till Kinged (Crowned). Even then it can be a detriment to your game if brought into the kKing row then back out again as a result of an 'in and out shot' that is a standard tactic in Checkers. You can become much more proficient in Chess in less time than it takes to advance to say an expert in Checkers. Checkers has lagged behind Chess for several reasons. You can find Chess played in almost any country of any language as Chess has universal appeal regardless of country played. Checkers (8x8) style is predominantly an English speaking game that dates back to the Pyramids of Egypt. Scotland in later times had the best players for decades then found its way to America. Today we find most 8x8 Checker players in the U.K., USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, and some Caribbean Islands that had former British rule. The American Checker Federation has members all over the globe in many countries. But most European countries play varied styles of Checkers and not so much the English style we play here in American. Our current 3-Move World Champion, Mr. Alexander Moiseyev came from Russia on October 15, 1991 and was a Master in 10x10 there. After coming to the USA he changed over to 8x8 and has learned it very well ! Checkers and Chess are both tremendous learning tools for children, no argument about that. Both games teach good thought processes, patience, sportsmanship to mention a few. I have always looked at Chess as rapid development of your pieces and Checkers as holding back and developing your pieces as slowly as possible. Former " Free Style" Checkers World Champion Mr. Tommie Wiswell once remarked, " Moves that disturb your pieces the least disturb your opponent the most". Checkers is a waiting game to see if your opponent will make a mistake and you sit back and patiently wait like a 'cat and mouse' game. A perfectly played Checker game is supposed to end in a draw. Mr. Wiswell once admonished to " Keep the draw in sight"................ Not always an easy task!

Sincerely:
Alan Millhone, President
American Checker Federation
===============================================Checkers-- '' THE MENTAL SPORT ALTERNATIVE TO VIDEO GAMES "
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[Alex_Moiseyev]

Every player has unique style, opinion and view on the game strategy. So, I don't have intention to discuss and object Mr. Millhone opinion. I can share my own views.

For me checker is not "in-and-out" kind of business, but instead - setting and achievement "small goals" from move to move, from different phases of game to the next phases. In the opening, midgame and ending phases goals are different. I don't wait for opponent mistake, but I am trying to generate a situation where he can make it.

Checkers is not a game of win-draw-lost. It is a game of chances. During the whole game I try to increase my chances by setting correct goals.

"In-and-out" is not a strategy principle, but tactical element.

Unfortunately my chances to earn $500 are miserable and this is the reason why I didn't respond to Mr. Niederhoffer. The reason is simple - I disagree that "in-and-out" strategy could be apply to checkers. I already posted earlier in forum under "Strategy" topic my opnion and view on this.

You can review it here - http://www.usacheckers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=302

The principle of freedom can be apply for checkers as well as for any other model - society, market etc. I would recomment Mr. Niederhoffer to read my post and look from this point of view. This works better, more properly and accurately ... at least for checkers.

Concerning chess-checkers controversy - the answer is simple. Chess got more popularity and jump-start in 60's because of R. Fisher and cold war. There were many political speculations around and this greatly helped chess to move ahead and be promoted.

Perhaps we need another Revolution on Barbados

Sincerely,

Alex Moiseyev
checkers / draughts World Champion

[kiwinurse]

For me, I learnt about checkers when i was 10 years old,and a wonderful teacher started checker competitions in our class,none of us had any training,and the teacher was not an expert in it,but he taught us competitiveness and something to get excited about at school. The whole class took to it like a duck to water,and there were many matches fought out,and many beaming children winning and losing.Today in the schools here in New Zealand, competitiveness apart from physical sports has kind of been washed down a bit,with schoolchildren encouraged to be equal, the competitive edge has kind of been sanitized a bit, and children love to compete,and they love to win.
Starting out, the principles of checkers is not hard to learn for a child,as its simple yet as complicated and hard as you want it to be,there is no limit in extending yourself in it.
Therefore checkers is a very valuable contributor of teaching children how to win,and more important how to lose graciously,because in life we are brought up with disappointments in every area of our lives,and we need to know how to get over these.
And despite the hours of solo study the keen checker person undertakes to be a better checker player,it can be a very social game,especially at international level,where likeminded people get together and have a great time.
I never forgot the year the teacher taught me checkers,so many years ago, and recently i searched for the man,and finally found him. He was actually living not far from me,and we met again,and i thanked him for inspiring me to love checkers.He was delighted in what i had achieved as i told him about my travels,and the people i met.He is no longer a teacher but a wellknown artist,but his whole role in teaching was to find the talent in the child and encourage it,and he succeeded with me,and dozens of other children,in all areas.

[Ingo_Zachos]

Here are my thoughts on the subject checkers and (not versus) chess:

1. Chess has a better infrastructure. Since the first international tournaments in London 1851, chess had a better infrastructure.
In checkers the first International tournaments were held in Petal at the Hall of Fame when they organized international Invitationals. (Not just players from USA and GB & Ireland like in the so called "Internationals".) Today we have the WCDF Qualifiers and some tournaments like the Irish Open, US Nationals, German Open etc. that r attended by players from different countries, but chess is spread in every country of the world, and has a reigning body, FIDE, that was established in 1923.
The WCDF was established in 2003, so we can say that infrastucture is more then 80 years behind in checkers. (A litte bit less behind at 10*10 draughts) It was not R. Fischer or the Soviets alone that created that advantage, but a continuing globalization of chess that checkers never had.

In chess we have also hundreds of books out every year, professional databases like ChessBase, ChessAssistant, professional trainers and managers and thousands of tournaments every year worldwide.
In checkers the WCDF rating commitee had 20 events reported in the second half of 2006 ;-(

Checkers can built this infrastucture, too, but it will take years, and I believe that the WCDF and the playing servers on the internet r the right, but only first steps to achieve a good infrastructure.

2. Chess is much like Checkers:
not the rules, but the charakter of taking turns and the fact that it is based on calculation, planning, memory, and positional feeling.
Some concepts like the opposition, the deep research of opening theory, the wide range of tactical devices and known theretical endgame wins r things that made it easy for me as a chess player to achieve expert level in checkers quickly, only two years after I was told the rules,as they can be studied like I studied chess.

In chess this would have been impossible due to the great professionalism that does not only include professional players, but also professional trainers, writers and programmers.

3. Why should I prefer one game to the other ?
Is it only allowed to have one friend, only one Hobby, only one child, or only one parent ?
My life and my heart r big enough to have enough love for all my friends and for both games and a few other games as well.
Why should I give up one for the other if I can have both ?

You see it is that easy:
Play chess and checkers and Go and Chinese Chess, and every other game you love and don't be bothered by those who tell you that there is only one "real" thing.
I am curious and ambitious, romantic and logical and social.
All those human qualities r also qualities of both games, and in learning and playing them we do not learn how to master life better, as music, arts and love also posses these qualities, and also teach you how to master life.
But like music, arts and love enrich your life and make you happy, playing games like chess and checkers makes you happy, too.
What more can a human demand then happiness ?
And what more can we give to our children?

Ingo Zachos

[kiwinurse]

Amen Ingo!

[m stewart]

Chess and Checkers teach the same values to kids.
I am a chess coach for some of the Desoto County schools-coaching
students from 3rd grade to high school.
I have tried to get checkers into the school also but chess was setup
first and as I said they teach the same values.
I was taught checkers by my Granddad and chess by my Dad.
I love the beauty found in both games.
I find checkers by far the harder game. You can make no mistakes in
checkers and come back.
The Bobby Fischer boom got me going in chess. I found the US Chess
Federation and started studying and playing chess24/7.
I found out about the ACF ,while reading about the ICHF.
I became a Life member of the ACF and A life member of the GAYP club.
Now I am trying to study checkers 24/7!!!

[john reade]

Ingo, Chess is standardised only in the west. There are several different forms of chess in the eastern countries. John.