gamesite?

[Patrick Parker]

as far as i go
my pc is down so i have to rely on my roommates letting me use his pc so
my game time is random at best

[Patrick Parker]

also no one ever answered anything about an acf game room?

[AKA]

actually i agree with john about some of this
i think really u should play in tournaments or atleast around other
checker players or ...all you have is numbers on a website
i do play offline as well as on...and dont do to well at either but
i think i am known as an honest player and my low rating at kurnik will
help prove that.....however what u mentioned about kurnik and cheaters
there are cheaters there ....they are easy to identify
they use a program to help them use a program to cheat ....but
master level players can compete against this

most program use small timers not large timers
programs like less than 5 minute games ....

No one uses programs in timers 3 minutes or less.

[AKA]

3move will be available at Kurnik starting in April. 3move tournaments will also be used with 2 games per round instead of 1 game.

I heard rumors that itsyourturn.com had 3move but was using losing 3moves in their deck! So I emailed the Kurnik Webmaster with all the legal 3 moves used in face to face tournaments.

[Ingo_Zachos]

No one uses programs in timers 3 minutes or less.

this sounds reasonable, but in fact this is a modern legend.

The shorter the time the easier to cheat with a program as the tactical advantage in calculation of a computer program is rising then.

To write a "Buddy" program that helps you cheating is not that hard as many programmers opened the sourcecode of their programs.


Greetinx from Dortmund, Germany

Ingo Zachos

[AKA]

No one uses programs in timers 3 minutes or less.

this sounds reasonable, but in fact this is a modern legend.

The shorter the time the easier to cheat with a program as the tactical advantage in calculation of a computer program is rising then.

To write a "Buddy" program that helps you cheating is not that hard as many programmers opened the sourcecode of their programs.


Greetinx from Dortmund, Germany

Ingo Zachos

Sure, in Yahoo, but no one has seen this in Kurnik. The only way to cheat in Kurnik is to use a 2nd computer, everyone in Kurnik knows this. That is why it's difficult for anyone to do this in 3 minute timer or less, they'll run out of time. You have something deeply against Kurnik, or online checkers in general. In the long run, playing 300-500 games a week online will pay off more than reading books.

I think offline players have a hard time believing that there aren't any good players online. When in fact, majority of the above average players play online

Alex Moiseyev, Clint Olsen, Jon Chappell, have you had any situation in Kurnik, where you thought someone was cheating you in a blitz game using a program?

[Ingo_Zachos]

Sure, in Yahoo, but no one has seen this in Kurnik.

Okay, if you want to believe there is one site free from cheaters, I can't argue against that...

Another point is more important, I believe:

To play tournament games, you must calculate accurately without help of books, programs, a strong player siting beside you, time advantage etc.
To achieve that, you have to concentrate on a span that is more then seconds, which is required in quick play or in TV comercials.
Most famous chess trainers do not require playing rapid games if you want to develop your knowledge and playing strenghts, but to take the time and analyze with others in groups or to study books critically.
Setting traps and relying on tactical intuition is good, but it fails in tournament against expierenced players.

My recommandation:
Try it and you will see the difference.
I met more then one "2600+" on chesservers that never played in a tournament and they usally lose all endings they play in a chess tournament...
A sad expirience, but one that will make you think different!

Greetinx from finally sunny Dortmund, Germany

ingo Zachos

[Alex_Moiseyev]

Alex Moiseyev, Clint Olsen, Jon Chappell, have you had any situation in Kurnik, where you thought someone was cheating you in a blitz game using a program?

Honestly - not yet. I iam playing online since 1997 and have some experience with progging. There are some "red signs". Playing on Kurnik in the past several weeks, I didn't find sufficient red signs from any particular player.

However, my personal case cannot be a good example or proving evident. Everyone wants to beat a World Champ honestly, face to face (and some do ). Using programs not very benefficiary in this case. This doesn't mean - they don't use progs against other opponents.

Online play, as any other form of practice (mail, real tournaments, etc.) will never replace necessity to study published play on regular base. Yes, you can learn something, but this is still not enough to master the game.

Crossboard skills of Kurnik players today are still far from perfect, including ending stage of game.

Regards,

Alex

[Patrick Parker]

any time u want proof of a prog
ill find a 15 year old with a program
u can play him with a 1/0 timer
and not only will his program not run out of time
it will probably win
like i said
they are using a program to use the checker programs
dont argue what you dont have a clue about
shorter timers help programs of this kind
also they wont blue or fade if they cheat this way
so they wont need two computers

[Patrick Parker]

also i played at vog and there were cheaters there as well
also in zone ....believe what u want
just be open minded
the lil kids are cheating and some tournament adults as well

[AKA]

any time u want proof of a prog
ill find a 15 year old with a program
u can play him with a 1/0 timer
and not only will his program not run out of time
it will probably win
like i said
they are using a program to use the checker programs
dont argue what you dont have a clue about
shorter timers help programs of this kind
also they wont blue or fade if they cheat this way
so they wont need two computers

This is not the case in Kurnik Patrick Parker. There is a program made public for 1/0 games in YAHOO but not KURNIK. If you have witnessed a player suspiciously using a program in 1/0 kurnik without his ID fading then send me a private message on here, the IDs of the player(s).

[matthewkooshad]

You guys should not argue about this. It is impossible to stop cheating online, and it is impossible to prove if someone is cheating or not online. Because of this, I suggest for people who care if someone is cheating or not to only play people who you have come to know and are able to comfortably play a game of checkers with. This is not a game to play where you should worry about if your opponent is honest or not.

For anyone who does not believe the above assertion that it is impossible to prove if someone is cheating online or not, I suggest you take a look at http://www.alicebot.org/articles . I could not find the exact article, but a well known experiment has taken place before of trying to determine if a computer was an actual human or a computer. Person A had a live interactive chat with B, and it was impossible to tell if B is a human or not.

With the same idea, it is impossible to determine who or what is on the other side of the screen playing against you in a game. Not rate of play, not consistency, or anything exists to assist in determining whether your opponent is a human or not.

[Patrick Parker]

here is the thing
i know im right not really trying to argue but ya know

and your right matt about playing people you know and i do this
but i was just talking about saying something that doesnt exist...doesnt for whatever reason when...it does

heres what happens this program flips between two programs
checkerboard for example or shareware nexus....and internet explorer
and the checker program is set on instant
if your playing 3 minute or less games
the program loses hardly any time and doesnt fade or blue
because the program makes moving between both windows so fast
or somehow stops it from fading that u wont know it.

maybe i can show some of u in illinois if a certain someone brings their laptop

[bazkitcase5]

regardless of what timer a program can play at kurnik, u can still run into a major problem

if u play only timed games (in the attempt to stop somebody from using a program against you), then you hinder your own improvement

you can get really good playing only timed games, but there is a point in time (a limit if u will) in which u need to start playing slow games and studying books/problems to improve further

so with that in mind, if u slow the timer down, then u run across potential cheaters

best thing to do in my mind is to only play those u know and trust, somebody willing to play a slower game with you and help each other improve

[Alex_Moiseyev]

...

Extremely well said, Clay !

There are two types of knoweldges in game of draughts. One comes from book study (including programs opening books) ==> just read and memorize. Second type - from practice - just play and memorize. There shouldn't be any disproportion, and both sources must be use to build your own "opening database" If people ignore one of those sources - their knowledges somehow are limited and miss a big pieces of puzzle.

Good portion of my knpoweldges came from Internet and regular tournament play (there is no difference for me), other portion - from regular study.

Regards,

Alex