Questions from a programmer

[eki]

Hi, before I get to my questions, maybe I should introduce myself since I'm new here. My name's Eric, and I started a turn-based game site (see sig) about 5 months ago. I'm new to checkers (never really played it before, except a couple times as a kid), but I'm working on adding it to my site. I'm sure I'll play a lot of checkers before and after release, but there are some questions only experience can answer.

So here we go:

1. Could someone just confirm for me that American Checkers, English Draughts, and Straight Checkers are just three different names for the same game? (same exact rules) And, I don't suppose there's any consensus on the most used name? (although I'd expect American Checkers to be most popular here)

2. How often do draws occur? Are there common conditions that lead to draws? Do players usually just agree that a game is a draw, or are there rules that dictate when a game is a draw? (for example, 40 moves without progress... Or, repeating positions)

3. I found a web page that says, "Notice that in checker diagrams, the pieces are usually placed on the light colored squares, for readability. On a real board they are on the dark squares." When playing online, do people prefer pieces on light colored squares for readability? Or, pieces on dark colored squares because that is how the game is meant to be played?

Thanks in advance, I've already learned a lot just from browsing through these forums.

Eric

[tommyc]

before and after release...eki says?? Release from where,what??and hes learned abt the 40 mv rule...extraordinary !! Do you smell fish!!

[eki]

> before and after release...eki says?? Release from where,what??

Sorry, before and after I release checkers on my turn-based games website (Vying Games). On my dev server I have checkers in a playable state, but there are still some glitches, and I have AI work still to do. I meant that I'd be playing a lot of checkers during development (as I try to program the AI), and with lots of people (hopefully) after releasing the finished software.

> and hes learned abt the 40 mv rule...extraordinary !! Do you smell fish!!

fish?

Sorry, I'm not quite sure I know what you mean by that.

[tommyc]

Just a joke eki........thats you indoctronated into the site ..Welcome and g/l w/ you turn based games.

[eki]

Ah, thanks tommyc! : )

[Palomino]

Question #1, Part A

Could someone just confirm for me that American Checkers, English Draughts, and Straight Checkers are just three different names for the same game? (same exact rules)

Yes, they are all the same game.

Question #2, Part C

Do players usually just agree that a game is a draw?

Yes
Question #2, Part D

Are there rules that dictate when a game is a draw?

Rule #12
A draw is declared when neither player can force a win. When one side appears stronger than the other, and the player with what appears to be the weaker side requests the referee for a count on moves, then, if the referee so decides, the stronger party is required to complete the win, or to show to the satisfaction of the referee at least an "increased" advantage over his opponent within 40 of his own moves, these to be counted from the point at which notice was given by the referee. If he fails to do this, he must relinquish the game as a draw.

Question #3

I found a web page that says, "Notice that in checker diagrams, the pieces are usually placed on the light colored squares, for readability. On a real board they are on the dark squares." When playing online, do people prefer pieces on light colored squares for readability?

NO, often checker diagrams in books have the dark and light squares printed in reverse because most book diagrams are black and white. Players prefer red and white checkers played on green squares when playing online with the remaining squares being buff in color.

Regards,

"Pal" Bucker

[eki]

Question #2, Part C

Do players usually just agree that a game is a draw?

Yes
Question #2, Part D

Are there rules that dictate when a game is a draw?

Rule #12
A draw is declared when neither player can force a win. When one side appears stronger than the other, and the player with what appears to be the weaker side requests the referee for a count on moves, then, if the referee so decides, the stronger party is required to complete the win, or to show to the satisfaction of the referee at least an "increased" advantage over his opponent within 40 of his own moves, these to be counted from the point at which notice was given by the referee. If he fails to do this, he must relinquish the game as a draw.

Okay, is there a simple definition of what constitutes an advantage or an "increased" advantage? Or, for that matter, a guide-line for when a side is weak enough to be granted a count? The count itself would be very programmable, but I worry that I don't know checkers well enough to program a referee (for all I know, it may be a significantly difficult task).

That said, if there are simple material counts for granting a move count, I could probably automate the referee.

Otherwise, I'd probably go the route of allowing the game to end in a draw at any point as long as both players agree on the same turn.

Question #3

I found a web page that says, "Notice that in checker diagrams, the pieces are usually placed on the light colored squares, for readability. On a real board they are on the dark squares." When playing online, do people prefer pieces on light colored squares for readability?

NO, often checker diagrams in books have the dark and light squares printed in reverse because most book diagrams are black and white. Players prefer red and white checkers played on green squares when playing online with the remaining squares being buff in color.

Okay, I'll go with traditional colors / layout.

Thanks, Pal!

[Patrick Parker]

if u want to see what people like as far as colors go
http://www.kurnik.com go to checkers

checkers is the name of the game i think we all accept
draughts would also be acceptable but less known to americans

offering a draw if your opponent refuses and then (opponent)has to win
or exchange pieces or crown a piece or something like this might be nice
without which a draw would result
playing out 40 moves with 1 king vs 1 king....because your opponent
refuses to draw
is not fun
also 3 move checkers is different than just regular checkers

[eki]

if u want to see what people like as far as colors go
http://www.kurnik.com go to checkers

I think you wanted http://www.kurnik.org : )

checkers is the name of the game i think we all accept
draughts would also be acceptable but less known to americans

I'd like to do some variations eventually. Do most people think of American Checkers (or English Draughts or Straight Checkers) when they hear checkers? Or, do people think of it more as a generic term describing all variations (International Checkers, etc)?

offering a draw if your opponent refuses and then (opponent)has to win
or exchange pieces or crown a piece or something like this might be nice
without which a draw would result
playing out 40 moves with 1 king vs 1 king....because your opponent
refuses to draw
is not fun

Would it make sense to have a counter start automatically after a checker is captured or kinged? The game could then be called a draw automatically if there is a lull of 40 moves of inaction. Optionally, both players could agree stop the game as a draw at any point, if they don't want to wait for the counter.

Is 1 king vs 1 king always a draw? (of course, not, I suppose, if one side is poised to capture right after the game goes to 1-vs-1... but perhaps if there is enough separation between the kings?)

also 3 move checkers is different than just regular checkers

I hadn't heard of 3 move checkers before. I just looked it up. So, the first three moves are chosen at random from a list of "fair" openings, and then the players take over from there?

[Patrick Parker]

when i think of checkers i dont th ink of 10x10 or pool checkers
or anything like that but thats me 1vs 1 king is a draw
if the kings dont leave the double corner line
there is a count ....so many moves that it takes for 1 king to beat 1 king
if they are on the side of the board(single corner side) 12 moves or so
i am not sure
also i think some wins take way more than 40 moves to win
also u can have 4 kings vs maybe 3 kings and a pawn and it be a draw
or some similar situation
where neither side can win.....and it may take many moves before position is repeated

[eki]

when i think of checkers i dont th ink of 10x10 or pool checkers
or anything like that but thats me

Okay, maybe I'll list American Checkers as just Checkers.

1vs 1 king is a draw
if the kings dont leave the double corner line
there is a count ....so many moves that it takes for 1 king to beat 1 king
if they are on the side of the board(single corner side) 12 moves or so
i am not sure
also i think some wins take way more than 40 moves to win
also u can have 4 kings vs maybe 3 kings and a pawn and it be a draw
or some similar situation
where neither side can win.....and it may take many moves before position is repeated

That's very good info. It sounds like it will be very difficult to identify draws automatically, and that an automatic 40 count may be a bad idea. I'll stick with both players agreeing on a draw until I become more knowledgeable of checkers.

Thanks again to all who have replied so far!

Eric